TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

From Colin Harper on Facebook:

That eminent boulevardier of the bass Dave Pegg and I have been concocting some archaeological projects recently, for presentation via Repertoire Records in due course. One of these involves some crowd-sourcing - a box set configuration of all four of the 'official bootleg' cassette albums from the 1980s: A.T.2, The Boot, The Other Boot and The Third Leg, plus the 1981 Broughton Castle film. All will be painstakingly remastered by the mighty Eroc (whose restoration work on non-professional / semi-professional audio is astonishing).
So, that crowd-sourcing... we're looking for good quality / well-preserved *original* cassette editions of all four, PLUS the US variant of The Third Leg (produced by Dirty Linen magazine in 1990) - and a similarly well-preserved VHS of the Broughton Castle film.
PM me if you can supply any!

I've got the Third Leg cassettes. I think the video is buried in the loft somewhere.

I've sent Colin the vid just now.  I have most of the boxes but they're in store....but he's after 2 or 3 of each so the best possible sources can be obtained. Shall I ask for an email addy if you're not on FB?

I'm on FB and in the Fairporters group.

I've just checked...he doesn't want to share his email addy so just contact him via FB if anyone can help  :)

What a great project! :) It will be amazing if they can improve the sound quality of these historic recordings.

If they're dubbing from cassettes can we presume that the masters are long gone?

Jules

Why not use the existing CD releases for the Boots series?

Must be.  I did wonder if this might be something to do with Woodworm ownership though?

I asked this.  Colin replied "And yes, only cassette originals needed - the previous CD of two of the boots will have 20-year-old mastering already applied." which doesn't quite make sense to me, but I didn't push it...

From a listening point of view the CD sets are good enough for me. However if there are any extras or the price is good I may well get it for completeness.

There will be at least a few since they asked for the US/Dirty Linen Magazine version of The Third Leg. I offered my copy but looks like someone else offered before me. Skeptical too, but if the video is restored then I am less so!

So what was exclusive to the US Third Leg?

Jules

1.Head In A Sack, rec January 28, 1987 in Leamington Spa
2. Close To The Wind, same date
3. Dirty Linen, rec July 4, 1987 at Grant Park Chicago
4. A Sailor’s Life, rec at Cropredy, 1987-yes ‘that’ one
5. Fiddlestix, rec at Cropredy, 1987

I have now been in touch with Colin Haroer and he thanks everyone who have sent tapes and VHS tapes but does not require any more.

That's really good news, isn't it.

From the correspondence on FB and to tidy things up, here is an answer from Colin about why the cassettes (and not the CDs):

After confirming that the original Reel to reels are lost, he replied "Simple - when mastering something, the ideal is to have the original source. As good as that 2000/01 CD mastering might be, it is 20+ year old technology and one person's set of ears. A fresh set of ears (and to my mind, Eroc is the best in the world in extracting magic from non-pro audio) and the wonders of 2022 restoration & mastering software will yield new riches."

Another nugget included in the correspondence is this:  "I'll spill the beans... a Fairport post-Island-era BBC set is on the table. But let's not go down that rabbit hole here. Two FC/Repertoire projects before that's looked at."  I'm not quite sure what that makes the second FC project prior to that one, mind...

Pleased to hear  about the BBC set. I always thought it was a missed opportunity not including that stuff on the original BBC set.

I'll withold judgement on the Boots set as I have the two CD sets which are fine to my ears, unless there is a significant amount of extra material. I am not especially excited by those extra tracks from the US cassette.

From everything I've read, there won't be any, Al.  For me, I suspect it depends on pricing and what the package as a whole looks like.

A.T.2 sounds pretty rough to these old ears, so I will welcome 21st century remastering.

Cheers, Robert!

Jules

My pleasure Jules. Had a listen tonight. The Dirty Linen version might be decent with the audio improvements. Thinking about it, other than the Free Reed sets I don’t think there have been many versions of it on releases from the Maart era. The one that could be really great is Head In A Sack, which has a nice double electric guitar + violin attack. I really like this version and would love to have it cleaned up

It's fascinating that cassette recordings can be disassembled, remixed and reassembled when the bandwidth on those old cassettes was essentially zilch in comparison to 4- or 12- track one-inch tape.

Obviously they think there's money in these old recordings. Good luck to 'em.

I'll be amazed if, after all the work needed to get these tracks anywhere near the 21st century, there's any ROI at all.

What's it going to cost - £40?  1000 of those is £40k.  Remastering and production of booklet etc etc £5k?  Manufacturing costs for 1000 £5k £10k?  I'd have thought there's profit to be made...but these are all stabs in the dark, of course...  I'll certainly be interested to see/hear what results.

...and will the final product be available on cassette for David  to buy ???
You'd hope so , just to bring the whole project full circle

 ;D Very droll.  I have all the cassettes (apart from the US release)...

I meant to say, I got my video returned by Colin a couple of weeks ago so hopefully things are moving on....

Mine ame back too. Sadly, the '82 video will not be part of this set.  :'(

Have you had confirmation of that from Colin, Ian?  The vid got sent back to Chester so I've not seen if there's any communication with it...

'Fraid so. Colin's answer to my query, in full. "No - just 81. (Hopefully...)"

I wasn't thinking...'81 is the one I'm thinking of...so what is the 1982 video...not sure I knew that existed?  Thinking about it, maybe I've seen clips...the Corn Flake guitar?

A Weekend In THe Country.  Fairport 9 reunion and bits of Babbacombe Lee

Is that a proper video release then?  I thought the 'Weekend in the Country' Cropredy was '83 anyway?

UPDATE: I've worked it out...Forever Young https://www.discogs.com/release/14154727-Fairport-Convention-Forever-Young-Cropredy-1982

Released much later...and not on Woodworm which i guess will be the issue...?

It's also the vid of A.T.2 isn't it so would be a duplication....

"Forever Young" was the Musicfolk rerelease. The original, released in '83, by Videotech & released as "A Peculier Old Weekend" with extra material from Maddy Prior Band, Home Service, Dan Ar Bras & John Benns.

Thanks for the clarification, Ian  :)

One of these (screen grab so very bad quality)?  Never seen it in the wild myself...

That's the bunny.  :)

I'm sure that there used to be a copy of that kicking around on Youtube a few years ago

Edit: Indeed there was. Our very own Jules even linked to it: http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?topic=18850.msg732815#msg732815

Edit 2: It seems like the user who uploaded it (https://www.youtube.com/user/RemyTena2) has removed all their Fairport videos. I am sure they used to have quite a few of these older/rarer releases and some TV shows (Pop2?). I wonder if a C&D was involved...

I had no idea it had been released in this form. The first I knew of it was from YouTube.

Jules

You're right.  My mistake.

I always regret missing seeing Trevor playing with the band.  I had opportunities (1985 being the most obvious).

Some of the very early "Nine" line-up gigs were among the most enjoyable I've seen by any artist.  :)

I guess one reason for that (beyond, of course, the talent on stage) was that the band was so close to folding immediately prior to it taking place (David Rea etc etc)...?

Years ago, I read or heard somewhere (and perhaps this information was inaccurate) that the Cropredy 1987 version of A Sailor's Life did not appear on the CD release of The Other Boot/The Third Leg at the request of June Tabor.  Has June Tabor granted consent for that song to appear on this new version of The Third Leg?

I've just had a bit of an update from Colin Harper on the Cropredy boots box set proposal.  The original company has gone cold on the project but another (and they're a very good one) has shown interest and it's now a possibility for a Cropredy '24 release date.  Fingers crossed.

Here's a full update from Colin Harper on Facebook - looks exciting to me!

Hello all - a momentary diversion from 2023 Cropredy excitement - an update on the 1981-89 Cropredy 'official bootlegs' box set project that I posted about a year or so back. And also a NEW crowd-sourcing appeal...
In brief, the best sources for the 4 official bootlegs (and Broughton Castle film) are now assembled and freshly digitised where needed, with much supplied by crowdsourcing here and elsewhere - included a set of original reels, no less, of one of the sets, from a contributor in the US. As explained before, much magic can be applied now with restoration/mastering software that could not be done even 5 years ago let alone 23 (when these sets were last on CD).
The project has now moved from the initially intended label to another - Madfish, renowned for deluxe enormo-boxes such as the recent 33CD/2DVD Horslips set and similar full-career sets on Caravan, Gentle Giant, Wishbone Ash et al. The parameters of the projected Fairport set have expanded too - to include a restoration of the rare Australian 'Here Live Tonight' (1986) cassette and 4 discs of BBC concerts and sessions from 1984-89, plus potentially an hour of 1982-89 BBC TV performances.
I had a lengthy chat with Lord David of Pegg a couple of days back, and he is as excited as I am about the newly enhanced proposal - and has hopefully briefed Ric, Dave M and Simon by now!
This is where you all come in... The BBC have all the required TV material but only some of the radio material. I have a couple of goodies personally taped off-air at the time, but the following is what we're missing. I feel sure that between us all, everything on the list can be collected and pro digitised (posting to me, me sorting it out and then posting back) from original off-air cassettes (ahead of mastering).
Fairport Convention members and guests will benefit directly, and rather well, from the set, which, all being well, will be available by Cropredy 2024.
OFF-AIR CASSETTES NEEDED:
Folk on 2, BBC Radio 2, 29/3/86 – Live at Birmingham University, 7/12/85
Titles TBC
Folk on 2, BBC Radio 2, 1/2/89 – Live at Octagon Theatre, Yeovil, 14/1/89
The Widow Of Westmoreland’s Daughter / Dark Eyed Molly / You Can Set Me Up / London River / Rose Hip / Red And Gold / Meet On The Ledge
Folk on 2, BBC Radio 2, 5/7/89 – Live at Beverley Folk Festival, ?7/89
Titles TBC
Nightride, BBC Radio 2, 25–30/4/88 (* original cassette, not the MP3s circulating online)
The Hiring Fair / Matty Groves / Meet on the Ledge / Cat on the Mixer–Three Left Feet / Portmeirion / Head in a Sack
Nightride, BBC Radio 2, 10–14/3/89 (* original cassette, not the MP3s circulating online)
London River / The Noise Club / Walk Awhile / The Hiring Fair / The Beggar’s Song

It developed significantly in the intervening 48 hours or so!  Hope it all comes off...the company do make decent box sets so fingers crossed.

Cripes! I’m not usually a box set completist, but this looks amazing!

Slightly disappointed the fantastic '82 video isn't included, but with such an embarrassment of riches....

Good point.  I've asked Colin....and his answer:

"Just curation - one can't include everything and there is also an argument that less is more. Museums don't throw everything they have into their galleries - it's about physical space, selection of items, storytelling..."

Which I'll be honest and say I don't really understand as it is hoovering everything else up but there you go!

Colin continues: "But fear not, this will be a FANTASTIC set...One of the items the BBC did hold on to was a 45-minute b'cast from the 1984 Cropredy and a 1989 Richard Skinner pre-recorded studio session, both terrific in different ways - the first one raw and rough-edged charm, the latter, glistening and professional..."

I did offer, but he declined. (On this occasion  ;))

His response above.  It's weird because it seems like it's going all in elsewhere so I'm not quite sure where the curation he's talking about is, but hey...ours not to wonder why, eh?!  I'll definitely be getting it...

I have heard some Cropredy recordings, possibly from 1982, with some off-key vocals that somewhat mar the performances. No idea if there's a connection (or if I'm just tone deaf, which I don't think I am).

Well, if they're including the unlistenable "June Tabor incident" from '87 then I think that argument doesn't carry much weight...  ;) ;D

From Colin H.

"Only one item left to find for the 12-disc Fairport 1981-90 live & BBC box set (planned for release next year) that I may have mentioned around here before: 'Folk on Two' 27/3/86 - being extracts from a concert at Birmingham University on 7/12/85. SOMEONE must have taped it off-air..."

This has turned up! :)

A couple of queries from Colin Harper:

Do we know who is behind this YouTube channel and do we have any contact? infohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vmmILIitMc

Can anyone confirm if both Bruce Rowland and Dave Mattacks drummed at Cropredy 1984?  My memory is of only Bruce but I may well be wrong.  And, following on from this - who played keyboards on Day Trip to Bangor (Oh, the horror) & To Althea in Prison (is it DM)?

The booklet in the Cropredy Capers boxed set notes that both Bruce and DM were onstage together..
at the very least for "Bright Lights Tonight"... RT, SN, DS, DP, DM and BR.

... in 1984. "To Althea" from that year is included in the Fairport Unconventional boxed set, but no details of who played keyboards. I can't remember, but I guess DM or Maart on that one, and probably Day Trip.

wasn't that before Maart joined?

1984 was my first Cropredy. I'm sure both Bruce and DM were there.

Doh!!  ::)

So, if we know DM was there...I suspect it's a fairly decent guess to assume it was him. He's fairly available on FB so I'd suggest Colin ask him tbh...

Re the Youtube channel: wondering if it might be Michael Hunter, from Fiddlestix (the Australian Fairport fanzine thing). He's active in the Fairporters group on FB. Or he might know who it is, if not him?

Good call...I was trying to recall his name, and couldn't...

Colin is trying to locate a copy of this rare cassette.

https://www.discogs.com/release/23269379-Fairport-Convention-Here-Live-Tonight

He's after the Sloth.  The original tape is greatly preferred but if anybody digitised it, that too could suffice.

Mine's only a 2nd gen cassette, sadly.

Michael Hunter has sorted apparently  :)

Well, we should be getting a decent version of Sloth off it at least.  What's the whole thing like?  Decent I imagine...they were new young and enthusiastic in '86!

[/quote]

Michael Hunter has sorted apparently  :)

Well, we should be getting a decent version of Sloth off it at least.  What's the whole thing like?  Decent I imagine...they were new young and enthusiastic in '86!
[/quote]


Yes, pretty fine stuff. Both this & the 2nd, imaginatively titled, "More Live Tonight" are worth hearing.  :)

Another request from Colin:

Does anyone have another recording of the 1987 Folk on 2 recording from Leamington Spa (Broadcast 28 Jan 87)?  The one they're working from is a little weak...

Has anyone ever asked Colin whether we could have an equivilent BBC collection of 70's Steeleye material  ;D  There is a lot potential !

Latest update from Colin on FB.  Get your wallets ready...

I've had the pleasure of working this evening with designer
Mark Case on the design/layout of forthcoming Fairport box set 'It All Came Round Again: Onstage and on air 1982-90' - towards which some here have very kindly helped, supplying off-airs of a few BBC items that haven't survived at source. I didn't know this when I commissioned (for the Madfish label) Mark to do the design on this set, but the elder brother he lost last year had been a long-time Fairport fan. 'Meet on the Ledge' was played at the funeral. The universe moves in mysterious ways. 🙏
The 11CD+DVD set (hardback, slipcased, LP-sized) features Cropredys 1982, '83, '86, '87 (mastered in the best sound to date) + BBC audio 1984-90 (56 BBC audio tracks, all unreleased) + an hour of BBC TV 1982-85 (plus some 1970s extras). 🙂
Graeme Thomson has provided the main essay - with fresh interviews - and there is a glorious foreword and afterword, respectively, from FC biographers Patrick Humphries and Nigel Schofield, plus other written content. Several rare/unseen photos from the 1980s - live and studio shots - have been licensed in from Dave Peabody. Peggy, Simon, DM and Richard Thompson have all very kindly agreed to sign a reproduction piece of period artwork.
In between Winter Tour shows, the chaps have the opportunity to approve aspects of the design. 🙂 The set will be released in time for Cropredy 2024. Full details as and when...
Here's the back cover of the set's book.

It's my 60th birthday this year. I guess I know what'll be on my birthday list!

I'll be missing Cropredy, for the first time for 37 years, so I hope we can get it before then.

Saving up for that, I don't expect it'll be cheap😰😰😰😰😰😰😰😰😰😰😰😰

Nope, me neither...although the signed involvement (initialled probably in Richard's case if his book is anything to go by) of the remaining Full House gang is a nice touch.

£150-200?  What do you reckon?

Most excellent...can do without anothe Nigel Schofield essay, but otherwise I'll be in for this

Well, thankfully there isn't one...just an afterword.

 Madfish released a 33CD/2DVD Horslips Super Deluxe box set for £250.00
This might give us some indication for the price of "It All Came Round Again: Onstage and on air 1982-90"

Indeed...but sadly I don't think it will be a third of that.