TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Just had a message from Simon.
It seems to suggest all is not well regarding Cropredy.
Or am I wrong ?

Tell us more…

A message from Simon
Greetings friends, old, new and/or young,

I’m taking the unusual step of writing to you personally to keep you informed about Cropredy 2024. You’re used to us reminding you about the festival’s progress but this time I’m writing about longer term considerations.

These are very hard times for the UK festival industry. In 2023, thirty-six smaller events were either cancelled or endured financial collapse. We’ve stewarded Cropredy for the thick end of fifty years so we feel the crashing disappointment and pain of our fellow organisers.

So far this year the number of cancellations has already reached thirty-four, some of them a lot bigger than Cropredy. We’ve seen swingeing increases in the costs of staging the festival – everything from infrastructure to artist fees, diesel fuel, lighting, PA, and so on – without compromising health, safety and comfort.

Crucially, our festival has no sponsorship: Cropredy has to pay its own way. The fact is there can never be a ‘bad year’ for Cropredy - anything which isn’t self-supporting could mean the end of the line. Simple as that. Which is where you come in.

How you can help
We want your help to secure the future of Cropredy, an event which means so much to so many.

Whole tribes have been created in these postcodes and many families bring three or even more generations together. Some of our key people were first here as toddlers and have lifelong treasured memories to prove it.

Many of you regular Cropredy-goers will have a neighbour, workmate, cousin or sibling who you’ve regaled with stories of great bands unexpectedly discovered or happy encounters at the bar. They’ve watched you pack for the journey and seen you return - sometimes muddy perhaps but always lifted and recharged by the sense of community of those three days in the field.

Perhaps you’ve told them how great it was this year and how much they’d love it. Perhaps they think they’re too old or it’s ‘not our sort of thing’. But if every couple of you regulars push that little bit harder you might persuade them that this is the year to bite the bullet. In other words, help us by introducing new friends to Cropredy.

Your loyalty to Fairport, to Cropredy, and to our collective community is unmatched; and it’s far and away the achievement I’m proudest to have been part of. So I’m appealing to you personally to do a little recruiting between now and August. Bring a friend; make a friend and bring them!

Of course, some of you reading this may be Cropredy virgins yourselves. So if you haven’t been to our festival I urge you to take the plunge and join us this year. It really is a question of use it or lose it, I’m afraid.

We have an absolutely incredible line-up of acts and they’re all set to blow you away. So don’t miss Fairport’s Cropredy Convention 2024 and do what you can to persuade a newbie to share the joy with you.

See you for another amazing weekend, OK? I can’t wait!

 

Love and thanks,

Simon

Concerning… 😥

The issue is as more and more fairport fans slip off the plate/ can no longer attend there need to be more newer attendees.
By booking bands that are mainly only remembered by those who are sixty plus (especially this year) it is totally unsurprising that it’s hard to attract new blood.
If there was a 80s /90s headliner this year it would attract more 50s and under.
I’m 51 and can’t remember the likes of ric wakeman, focus etc , I’d need to be well into my sixties.
It’s not rocket science
1) keep the same vibe
2) as people die off you need to book a few bands that the next 40/50 year olds can remember.
It’s all about getting the balance right.
In the email Simon says that the festival isn’t sponsored….
This year they should have approached saga or age concern.
I fear the damage is done
I as always will attend as I love the festival vibe , but this year I cannot relate to any of the main acts with the exception of fairport who I’ve grown to enjoy

Trevor horn …..again
Ric wakeman
Tony Christie.
Focus

Who in their right mind under 40 could I sell that to?
The replies would be
Trevor horn….who’s he??
Ric wakeman ….. I’ve heard of him , wasn’t he in some band in the sixties
Tony Christie…. Heard of him , what did he sing , road to Amarillo , oh yes , is he still alive he must be 90.
Focus…. Never heard of them

Now I’m in no way knocking any of the artists musical abilities and I’m not being cruel but they would be the answers I’d get.

I hate to be argumentative but most unless folk fans wouldn’t even know who fairport are if they’re under 50.

There in lies the problem
Alice cooper bought in fresh blood as although a 70’s star he did have hits in the 80’s and was a world class act
The waterboys were another 80’s band you could sell to people
Madness I actually got another couple of friends to go due to madness performing , again another 80’s band.

In a nutshell you can’t stuff a three day festival with bands that are from the sixties and expect them to still attract attendees…..
Many who enjoyed them in their prime are now dead.
That’s not harsh , it’s a fact of life

I think the festival is on thin ice down to a bad line up this year (to be fair other years have held their own and I really liked last year) but you live and die by your headline acts and someone’s decided to pack the festival with acts whose hardcore fans have died off rather than putting on at least one act who the main core of middle aged people and families can relate to.

What’s also of interest is the mystery act…
If he/she was going to be a decent act that would attract the fans it would have been announced by now given the begging bowls are out……
If I was organising it I’d be frantically looking around for an act to resonate with the main and future customers (the middle aged) rather than make it a festival for the people who were teenagers in the sixties and remember focus in their prime
I’ve mentioned this coming down the tracks for a few years now and unfortunately you reap what you sow

I hope the 60’s teenagers can get their friends to attend so the festival can continue because asking anyone under 40 to drag anyone along to see this line up would be futile and actually put them off coming in the future.
This is my 17th year and this is the only line up that does nothing for me in all that time
Il be going with friends because we get that it’s more than just the music but selling it to others … tricky

That sums up my thoughts, too.

Pretty much mine as well.  

I guarantee you that everybody that first went in the 80s (and 90s) will have those festivals as their favourite ones.  Every one since has been the law of diminishing returns.  It's stopped being a Fairport reunion (and their mates) festival and is, sadly, just another festival (with an echo of what it used to be around the village - although now much of that costs too).  

The economics (let's call a spade a spade, it's capitalism) and 'regulation' mean that it would be almost impossible to now return to it being that festival for 5-10k people who virtually all went with one intent - to celebrate the continued existence of Fairport Convention.  Now, they're a bit part in their own festival - and chasing shadows when it comes to trying to create a festival that works for enough people to make it all work.  I stopped a long time ago, but for me, this lineup is (in conclusion) weak.  

Personally, I think the best way of making this one work would have been to announce well in advance that they're taking a year out to reassess.  That way, demand would have been increased for both this year and, if they decided to continue, for 2026 as well.  It's sad, but some things do have their expiry date...and I do wonder if this (once?) wonderful festival might be one of them...

I also feel the main problem this year is the underwhelming lineup.
I will be there because it is Cropredy after all, but if I saw this prog yawnfest at any other festival I would definitely be giving it a wide berth!

The 2024 lineup's not particularly weaker than other years (although maybe a bit soon to have Trevor Horn's band back), however :

1) The main reason I ever went to Cropredy at all was to see a mega-Fairport Convention gig - their celebratory annual concert in front of a massive home crowd, surprises in the setlist, recreating past lineups, special guests, etc. It's undeniably a lovely festival with a very special atmosphere, but the diminishing significance of THE Fairport Saturday night concert has meant my interest has similarly diminished.

2) The cost. The elephant in the room. Now, I appreciate as per Simon's statement the cost of everything has gone up stupidly, but a weekend at Cropredy has become very expensive. It was an essential part of my year when tickets were £45-£75 for the weekend, however at today's prices (currently £245 including 3 day camping) it suddenly becomes a serious luxury item.

If they had the courage to put on a "fire sale" - e.g. as of now, all tickets £100 per person, get the punters in, get it sold out, then I might consider coming. Total fantasy scenario, though...

I (sadly) agree with all the comments made above. This will be my first Cropredy since 1989 that I’m not attending for the entire festival (bar the year when my daughter was born when I did a pretty knackering day trip). Thursday looks very weak to me, and the extra day off work/cost is something I was really struggling to justify. I also feel that in recent years the Saturday night Fairport set hasn’t really varied much from the Wintour. I love the festival and the band, and Cropredy really is a special place for me that holds a lot of very wonderful memories. Nothing stays the same forever, though…

As relative newcomers, this year marks the 20th anniversary of our first Croppers and is hopefully the last that we'll be camping at. At 68, I do actually remember Rick W. from Strawbs, Yes and Journey to the Centre of the Ice Rink. I also remember the original Focus and being able to sing along to Hocus Pocus when in my mid-teens, wrecking my vocal chords!

We attend / steward 4 festivals in the summer and they've all become less exciting with regard to the acts over the past years. COVID was a major factor in kicking audience numbers down and although lockdown actually introduced several new bands such as the Longest Johns, it seems that there's just very few bands coming along with the right combination of being excellent musicians, not costing a fortune and appealing to a wide age range.

Incidentally, one of the arguments I employed to successfully convince Wadworths to stock diet Coke rather than the full-fat variety a few years ago was that the demographic attending Cropredy meant that fully 40% of the crowd were either already diabetic or on the verge and being careful about sugar consumption.

I was concerned when I first read Simon's note but my reaction was tempered by their having had a very long run, plus they're all, well, pensioners as are most of the crowd. I actually expected when I saw the subject of the email to open it and find this was the last Croppers in its current form, with Fairport headlining. That day must be coming and if not, I think it will peter out in the next few years, which is sad, but almost inevitable.

How many years now have people been saying they don't go for the acts, but to meet all their friends that have survived the year? That isn't a sustainable business model, in my opinion.

Another factor could well be the increasing popularity of the fringe festivals. There must be a fair few who go for the cheaper option of the Brasenose or Field 8 whereby they can soak in the Cropredy atmosphere without the expense.

I tend to think ( along with the obvious financial situation) the growth of so many festivals, coinciding with the rise of the ‘insta-culture’ may have an effect. People who subscribe to that way of life, may not find that a festival like Cropredy, which sticks to its loved formula,  fits their need.

Whereas it means the world to those who have been involved for ‘what it is’ and looked forward to it for many years. It’s a bit like a childhood family home…you don’t want to lose it even if you are no longer able to visit very often. But the inevitable will loom  :'(

Only been to the one so I really can't do a deep analysis. But the analysis above is probably very fair, but I wonder if the band would be damned if they went too far in the other direction-only booking acts guaranteed to bring a youth movement in, to get grumbles from people who like their music of a certain vintage. That doesn't apply to the people on this forum I hasten to add. Here is a diverse range of music fans, but using people from my own age bracket as a sampler, most would not be a fan of newer music in general. The new album from an estabilished artist, yes. But a group 2 or 3 albums in...not so sure. I fear the other aspect is that Simon's famous quote about why shouldn't there be a Fairport in 50 or 60 years from now has never happened either, so the steady as she goes approach (much as I like it musically) is not going to shake things up.

From a Fairport fan point of view, I think I'd now prefer a two-day indoor (Union Chapel, 900 capacity? Possibly somewhere a bit bigger - say £120 x 900 is £108k) 'festival' of Fairport and their alumni and mates.  Sell the Cropredy festival and put your feet up on that score - who needs the hassle any more.  If someone else wants to make a go of it, so be it, otherwise let the 'fringe' events have their way in the village.

The day it tried to adapt to appeal to a very young demographic, it wouldn't be Cropredy any more.

It hasn't been Cropredy any more since Chris Pegg was last involved.  Or more accurately - it has been on a constant move away from what it is since that moment...the change of name crystallised that...

It does need adapting though as the older demographic it currently appeals to are dying off….
It just needs a balance.
A headliner that appeals to people who are middle aged rather than old aged.
Like it or not , they are the future of the festival and need catering for , the line up this year doesn’t , sales are down and the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
This years line up appeals to pensioners and not the general public.
Il be there , the main acts do not enthrall but I love the vibe.
My sad opinion is that unless the organisers get in fresh blood to book the acts to appeal to a broader age range but keeping the present values and musical variety (no problem with that , in fact it’s a big plus for me) then the festival will finish.
I hope that doesn’t happen and it certainly doesn’t need major surgery just more thought for the age demographic.
If there was one major act that was from the 80’s playing this year I can guarantee the ticket sales would increase.
There isn’t
They aren’t

This would work for me, and something that I’d love to see happen rather than slow Cropredy decline…

Well what can I say? It seems the younger generation are very different to us. Phones out whilst watching a live show? Just enjoy the moment! Coachella, America's answer to Glasto has proved that this year, inundated with "Influencers" making a quick buck with their fashion choices, and not having a clue about the music...'Blur" comes to mind. With the tick tok crowd and music at the touch of a button, they have no idea of the anticipation of queuing to see your fave band, the rush to be at the front and then the utter enjoyment of seeing a live band with proper musicianship. With A I coming, I see the demise of live bands, think Abba, sad to think this is the future...so let us go out and enjoy live music whilst we still can. I think the expansion of the fringe has also had an effect, however a lot of stuff is now ticket only and not the freebies it used to be.  If (let's hope not) this is our last Croppers....I'll be there, not many acts are my cup of tea, but I will enjoy every moment and recall the great memories of the times I have been there. Then go home and watch holograms of bands I loved and feel sorry for this younger generation who just don't get it!!

That seems like an impossible circle to square - it's as though you're saying they need to change the festival completely in order to appeal to the original audience.  Fresh blood booking the acts will, by default, automatically exclude the (well,the dwindling remains of) the original audience... Won't it?

HOW MUCH?

Indeed. Screenshot of current 3 day ticket prices from the FC website. Plus £55 for a 3 day camping ticket = £245.

I certainly don’t want a radical overhaul but to put it in a nutshell to anyone in their mid forties it’d be easier for me to sell a festival to them with the likes of madness or the waterboys etc who are bands they remember from their youth than the likes of focus , ric wakeman and Tony Christie who would be well before their time , only pensioners would remember them in their prime and pensioners regrettably are not the future of the festival , that’s not being unkind it’s a fact , the pensioners children and grandkids are the future of the festival and imo this years line up would only appeal to a small percentage of a target audience (that’s if the target audience isn’t just people 60 plus)
Like it or not a big 80’s headliner is now needed each year , nothing else much needs to change , it’s evolution not revolution.
The year madness played a lot of people turned up as they were an act that families wanted to see and I dare say a lot of older attendees also enjoyed it.
This line up has been ill thought out , lazy in the case of booking the TH band again so soon and does not have pulling power to attract many floating attendees.
That’s a job for the organisers and imho it should have been evident to them when booking the bands.
Every year up until now has been a triumph but this year they’ve got it wrong.
The last time ric wakeman played he was no where near headlining and please excuse my ignorance but what has he actually done in the intervening years to suddenly change this and make him headline the bill?
If anyone can explain this I’d love to know.

I think fairport is an amazing festival and couldn’t think of life without it but let’s not kid ourselves ,music festivals live and die by their line ups and this one imo is poor for the reasons I’ve listed above.
I absolutely hope the festival can survive after this setback but I only believe it would if the above advice is heeded ….. and no I don’t know everything before anyone asks but I truly stand by my convictions regards this.

I don't think its impossible. What makes Cropredy unique (or at least unusual) is the fact that the original audience now bring their children and grandchildren. Its also a safe and friendly environment. So market and cater for this with acts from as many decades as possible, perhaps with a weighting towards folk music. There is also only one stage, so emphasise families enjoying music together. Fresh blood booking acts doesn't have to exclude the original audience, just widen the net a bit.

Is that hopelessly naive?

It excludes the original audience because the original audience was Fairport's and Fairport have become simply an addendum to the festival (gradually, over the last 20 years).

Fairport are a Sixties band.
They weren't hugely successful then.
You can book Taylor Swift for Thursday night, but I doubt the field would be as populated by the time Dige came on.
Petula and Christie are not really the way to go either.
There was a contestant on Britain's Got Talent, or whatever it was, a pensioner, who came on, whipped off her granny clothes and ripped into an AC/DC song.
Robert Plant is 76.
Granny might have been a Percy groupie back in the day.
Songs don't have intros or endings anymore, because if there's not an exciting hook, the yoof, with the attention span of a deceased goldfish, swipe to the next song (with their decomposing fins, obviously). Well, not ALL the yoof. Some of them enjoy music beyond a catchy 'Woah, woah, woah.'
I remember when Thursday was music free and chill out time, and a young girl with her parents was talking to her friend on one of those new fangled mobile phones, 'It's OK, but it's full of OLD people.'
That was then, and it really is now.
At some point, it's going to take all of Thursday for us to shunt our way across the field, chairs and oxygen tanks strapped to our Zimmer frames to claim 'our spot.'
Our grand kids are going to be waiting for someone to start dancing around the stage, head mic engaged, rather than all those people playing, what are they called, Violets, or something ?

I didn't go last year, voluntarily, for the first time in nearly 35 years.
Cropredy has been like going home for such a long time.
I'm planning on doing just the Saturday this year.
I'd love to do the whole weekend next year.
We shall see.

(p.s I was typing this while David posted. It's not in response to him.)

Respect to your Gran.

Jimmy Page is 79.  His long term girlfriend (34) is younger than my daughter.  They're (apparently) planning to have a baby together this year.

I'm not sure what any of this proves ;) ;D

Looking back at one of the few times I've made it down to Cropredy, 2011 had a pretty good line-up which brought in younger music fans with The Coral (who I very much enjoyed) and Badly Drawn Boy (less so). Then we had Hayseed Dixie and The Blockheads who were, and still are, bands who will go down well at any festival. Headliner Seasick Steve might well have had John Paul Jones on bass and for the folkies there was The Shee, Lau and Urban Folk Quartet. Add in UB40, Horslips, the Dylan Project and Fairport and that was one good festival.

So from all the comments posted so far on this thread I reckon this line-up came close to ticking all the right boxes for making the future of Cropredy look a bit rosier.

This is what a decent Cropredy lineup looks like to me.  Throw in a wonderful Thursday in and around the village and bob's your mother's brother.  You're all invited to my 21st birthday party, too... ;D

Friday 14th
Le Rue
Gordon Giltrap
John Martyn & Danny Thompson

Saturday 15th
The Steve Ashley Band
Mara !
Chicken Shack
Muzsikás
Whippersnapper
Richard Thompson
Fairport Convention with Special Guests:

Richard Thompson
Dave Swarbrick
Ian Anderson
Martin Barre
Ralph McTell
Jerry Donahue
Cathy LeSurf
June Tabor

I'm not sure what either of MY grans would thought of Percy, as opposed to the BGT one, but when we saw him in Ibiza just after the Knebworth concerts, my mom was keen to have a go.

Jimmy, allegedly, has always liked the younger lady.

As to your line up suggestion, that's the sort of Croppers that hooked me in.

So, we have a letter from Simon pushing ticket sales, telling us costs have risen and that the festival has no sponsorship etc etc.

Don't we get this almost every year though - maybe not quite as dramatic but FC make a point of reminding us that Cropredy depends on ticket sales and the support of "The Crowd".

Everyone's costs are spiralling but ask yourself how much did you earn in 2010? Half of what you earn now - because the festival cost £85 then.

With several tours each year / cruise trips / off the desk Cds / assorted merch I feel that FC are close to milking the faithful pretty dry and maybe Cropredy is suffering from that.

DW

My first Cropredy  :D

I think many of fairport original fans are now dead.
You can’t get away from that fact.
That indeed excludes them.
The original fans that still attend are obviously a minority and plenty that are still alive can no longer attend due to health mobility issues.
That’d be the same for every sixties band, it’s just the passing of time.
You cannot base a festival around bands that appeal to a minority and fail to cast an eye to the future.

I hadn’t a clue who fairport were when I attended my first cropredy in 2008 but they grew on me and I enjoy them immensely now.
Therein is the point.
You have to keep the festival relevant
No open heart surgery
Just some tinkering.
All it needs is one family orientated headliner that appeals to middle aged families and if that’s seen as a deal breaker by pensioners who don’t want that then I’m afraid the festival is dead….(by the way they don’t mind because after watching Alice cooper , madness etc they still attend)
This year does not have a headliner that will attract the middle aged and the tickets are unsold , look on Facebook etc , many have said exactly the same and are in fact attending other festivals instead , so it is indeed a line up that is unappealing to them.
THEM being the future of the festival.
You book madness or someone similar as next Thursdays headliner and they’ll be back.
That’s just fine tinkering, the rest stays the same.
Let’s hope it survives.

Maybe they should announce who the special guest is going to be.

The nearest parallel to Cropredy that I can think of is Beautiful Days (no corporate sponsorship, the leveller’s festival, etc). From my recent attendances, I’d guess that their average audience age is c10 years or so younger than Cropredy. I think their numbers are capped at 10,000. In my opinion, their line-up is streets ahead of Cropredy this year, with something for everyone (as a side-note, we were amongst the oldest at a sold-out and heaving Longest Johns gig of c600; brilliant band!). Im pretty sure that their ticket sales are v healthy from what I’ve heard. I think my point is that once your unique selling point (for Cropredy it is/was the band, the fantastic location and a great chance to catch up with old friends) is no longer the main draw, lineup is everything.

That's true, but BD is a multistage event on a bigger site, so they are able to cover a wider range of music, more choice and attract a wider demographic.
The Levellers came to prominence a good 20-30 years after Fairport, and actually had enough top 40 hits to make a bona fide Greatest Hits album.
Most of the acts tend to be 80's, 90's and 00's, give or take the odd Hawkwind or Van Der Graf, so they have that advantage too.
The year Cropredy had Supergrass on did not go too well on the feral yoof front.

That seems very pertinent.

Excellent point, Mike, re: multiple stages, which I hadn’t considered. Is Cropredy the only festival with one stage?

Although it could, depending on who they are, actually make things worse?  A shrug of the shoulders is probably not what is needed here?

That depends on the size of the festival, generally.
The bigger festivals tend to have multi-stages, dance tents, cabaret tents and so on.
Smaller, folky type fests will have one or two.
Cropredy, as David pointed out, used to be mostly FC off shoots with Fairport as the climax to the weekend.
The 'fringe' used to be pub bands in the two, well, pubs, if you weren't interested in the act on the main stage.
That has now took on a surrogate alternative role to the actual event, with bigger names to draw you away from the main stage.
The Thursday headliner now has more importance than Fairport, and that's sad.

I can't see a new generation of Fairport fans coming in to replace us, - instead, new attendees are coming to hear top 40 hits from some Eighties act. Get Boy George or Bananananananarama on and it will probably sell loads.
They aren't Cropredy music.

Since the onset of the sea of chairs, I find myself with the choice of either being at the front or the back.
Obviously, people at the front are there to enjoy the music.
If I am at the back, there is hardly anybody engaged in the music at all.
They are having a picnic or chatting or whatever.
They only pay attention when there's a 'hit.'
'Oh, I know this one !'
It doesn't even have to be the original artist.
'Two Tribes' and 'Relax' may get them excited, but Frankie Goes To Hollywood have never been near the stage.
Maybe Trev will bring Holly on this year.

(I have Frankie, Culture Club and 'Nana records b.t.w, but this is Fairport's gig.)
(As another b.t.w, I have yet to see the Levellers at Beautiful Days..one year I watched Alison Moyet in the Big Top instead.)

Folk By The Oak started off as a one stage festival but they then added a small second stage which I think has bands on during the breaks between acts on the main stage. But then it is just a one day festival.

I haven't been to the Underneath the Stars festival but I'm wondering if it has similarities to Cropredy as it is centred round one artist, in this case Kate Rusby. From a quick look at its website it looks like they have two stages. Not a bad line up this year though I'm not familiar with The Feeling who headline on the Saturday.

The Bar-Steward Sons of Val Doonican are playing with their latest recruit the Rt Rev J R Doonican III aka Jamie Roberts.

https://www.underneaththestarsfest.co.uk/line-up

Underneath the Stars does have two stages (Big Top Tents). But there is only one act on at a time.

My feeling (as I think I mentioned before) is that it will be someone who is a (reasonably) big name, but they will only do a 20 min slot just before Fairport (or with Fairport?), and if they named them, there would be complaints from people who bought tickets expecting to see a full set.  I may, of course, be completely wrong... (it has been known).

I think I'm right in saying that previously announced 'special guests' have always played with Fairport, not as a separate unbilled act.  I can't think of any exceptions to that - can anyone?

Big Country were billed as "special guests" back in 2012 but ...

DW

So named on the bill, but described as 'special guests'?

I can't help but feel that if announcing the guest would enhance ticket sales, they'd have done it by now.

I wonder if reverting to the 2-day format might be worth consideration?

The trouble with that is that the Thursday in the village (which used to be a highpoint of the festivals for me) has been ruined by the pubs wanting their own festivals and charging for them....

Roger Hodgson?

He was an unannounced surprise guest with FC, like Gary Brooker, Joe Brown, Planty, Roy Wood before him.
Also Yusuf Stevens, except he let the 'Cat' out of the bag himself.

So many different categories of surprise guests! Yes, he was indeed of the ‘unannounced, surprise’ category as opposed to the normal ‘surprise’ category or the ‘un-named special guest’ category etc…..

Equally, BDs is a non-sponsored festival, capped at 17.5K attendees and with the extra cost of the infrastructure needed to put on all those extra stages, weekend prices are pretty comparable and they’ve (significantly, I think) already sold out all the camper van tickets. I think it’s about the line-up.

I think the significant difference is that, from the off, BD has been a festival that everybody knows is the Levellers' but it's been deliberately curated to appeal to a much wider audience than just their own, and the different venues permit (even encourage) that.  Unfortunately, the one stage setup in the current festival market just looks far too restrictive...and they've now lost that option because others in the village are offering that alternative and raking off the profits associated with it... opportunity lost.

@davidmjs #word 👍

I agree with this
If ticket sales are slow but you have one excellent joker in the pack left to play knowing that him / she /they would be the draw needed to sell the tickets you’d be announcing it by now….
The fact it’s not been announced sets alarm bells ringing.

Let’s all donate a tenner each to a just giving page to get a top act booked if it saves the future of the festival
I understand the act may not please everyone but a £10 donation and you get a patch/badge showing you helped support the festival.
If I had to pay a tenner to help buy an act and help the festival sell out I wouldn’t hesitate…,
Is that feasible or bonkers?

Also, not to decry the business model, but if you do want to see the band play, it’s not like there aren’t two tours a year where you can see them in a more convenient (seated) venue closer to home.

Well, it's not feasible for 2024 because any good acts have been booked up for this summer for months. A lot of acts are already getting booked for 2025.

As to 2026 and beyond, who knows? That's 2 years hence and when you look at events in the last 2, a helluva lot can happen in that time.

I may be wrong, but I think I remember Peggy saying that Cropredy is the means by which the funds to finance the tours, album and DVD releases and merch is raised.
Probably to fund the next years festival too.

I can't remember the interview, but Peggy looked worried that there wasn't going to be much of a walk up on the weekend.

As evidenced elsewhere, Patreon might seem like the way forward. A regular monthly fee for access to exclusive content, unreleased recordings (if any 🤔😁) and priority booking.

I first went to Cropredy in 1984, but over the next two decades I only attended sporadically, due to family, finances and, you know, life! Since my kids grew up and especially since my retirement, I've been able to go more often. However, as has been mentioned already, old age brings with it other issues. For instance, I've given up regular camping, as it's literally, a pain! In the last few years I tried hiring a camper van at ridiculous expense and (last year) gone glamping at ridiculous expense. I'm glamping again this year, but I don't know if that is sustainable in the long term. The line up doesn't really inspire me and, as others have said, if it wasn't Cropredy, I'm not sure I would have bothered.

I'm not a huge prog fan, but can take it in small doses. Unfortunately some pretty large doses appear to be on the menu. Trevor Horn for the third time in a few years isn't really an attraction to me. Ironically, my daughter who is coming with me for the first time since 1984 (when she was 6 months old ;D) is looking forward to hearing his 'greatest hits' act. She is also a Fairport fan, having been with me to see them on many occasions on Wintours etc, so it will be interesting to see what she thinks of the festival as a whole. Time marches on and, I suppose, the inevitable happens.

I can't see Fairport doing much to change the current state of affairs, and if they did, maybe it's too late for it to make much of a difference anyway. Still, it's a bit of un, isn't it? No, seriously, isn't it?! :o

Given the cost of living crisis, I honestly think that the lineup is a huge part of it.

Cropredy is *not* a cheap 3 days, and if we're going to risk spending what's going to be the thick end of £700 for two of us (after food, drink, travel costs and sundries) potentially being rained on in a muddy field before trudging back to a tent, we need to be confident we're going to enjoy a fair chunk of the acts.

Cropredy is simply too expensive for us to go in the primary hope of discovering something new.

I know that in years gone by, grumbles about the lineup have always been met with the usual responses of "We don't care about the music, we're going because it's Cropredy", but as has been said, the number of people with that attitude will have been diminishing every year through unavoidable natural causes, and so there needs to be a counterbalance.

Since the weather is just pot luck, the lineup is the only leverage the organisers have with those of the ticket-buying public who aren't nostalgically wedded to the twin concepts of FC and Cropredy - which, let's be honest, is most of them.

We haven't been for 17 years, and we've only been 4 times in total starting in 2002. Even back then, it was noticeable that the FC setlists were mostly comprised of the stuff we'd seen on the Wintours and the years of the mega-sets full of back-catalogue surprises were over.

Despite the headline of "it's the lineup, dummy!" I don't really know if there's an answer, and to be frank, I would imagine that pretty much everything depends on how well this year turns out.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but I can't help but think you weren't paying attention in 2002  ;) ;D

https://fclist.org/cropredy-cropredy-line-ups/cropredy-2002

Simon Nicol
Dave Pegg
Ric Sanders
Chris Leslie
Gerry Conway
Dave Swarbrick
Richard Thompson
Ashley Hutchings
Iain Matthews
Jerry Donahue
Maartin Allcock
Anna Ryder
Andrew Cronshaw
Neil Wayne
Ian Blake
Fraser Spiers
Tom Farnell
Roger Hill
Marc Ellington
Eddi Reader
Vikki Clayton
Ralph McTell
Chris Parkinson
Tommy Connolly Dancers
Terry Paine
Geoffrey Hughes
Blair Dunlop
Bob Fox
Kristina Donahue
John Jones

The Widow of Westmoreland's Daughter
Happy Man
The Crowd
My Love is In America
Neil's Morris
Journeyman's Grace
Walk Awhile
Doctor of Physick
Now Be Thankful
Flowers of the Forest
You Ain't Going Nowhere
Poor Will and the Jolly Hangman
Sloth
Hens March / Four Poster Bed
Polly on the Shore
Stranger to Himself
Rising for the Moon
John the Gun
Brilliancy Medley / Cherokee Shuffle
Rosie
The Plainsman
Red and Gold
England
Milltown Maid
Claudy Banks
Slip Jigs and Reels
Naked Highwayman
Red Tide
Jewel in the Crown
Everything But the Skirl / Let There Be Drums
The Light of Day
Bowman's Retreat
Matty Groves / Dirty Linen
Meet on the Ledge

Sorry if noted elsewhere, but I note from the mailing list,  that a raffle has been initiated to try to boost ticket sales, presumably.

Don’t worry, it’s not a box of hankies, a knitted loo roll cover and some After Eights…it's some festival tickets for some other events via Costa Music Festivals.

That slightly underplays it, to be fair, the prize is worth about £2k :o  Everyone that buys a ticket (or has already bought a ticket) is entered.

I know-Great prize! Here’s hoping it tempts a few more people.

ah but how do we know if we already have a ticket it really will be added to the draw ;D ;D ;D

You trust them. Is that so weird?

Further announcement from Simon on Facebook, saying  “this is getting serious now”…..

Its clear that punters dont agree that its the best bill for 40 years or they would have sold more tickets. The only way they will sell more would be to change the line up but they probably wouldnt be able to without incurring more costs. I wont be there for the first time in 35 years but have been spared the tough decision because I'll be at a family wedding in France. If i had gone I would be sat in the van (at the Brasenose) for three quarters of the time.  I am not being unreasonable i just wouldnt want to watch most of the line up. I have a lot of bills this year and £500 to see a couple of bands is just not on and head would overrule heart I'm afraid. Clearly I'm not alone.

Simon Nicol's post on FB today:

"This is getting serious now. Please share the hell out of Cropredy in any way you can. It really is the best and this year's bill is as good as any in the last forty plus years. And by the standards of others, we've worked really hard to make it affordable despite the problems outlined below.

"#useitorloseit

"'In the past five years alone, 172 festivals in the UK have disappeared. 96 events were lost due to COVID, 36 were lost throughout 2023, and now, 40 have already been lost since the start of the year.'"

Awful… 😥😥😥

He said it was ‘as good as any’, not ‘the best’. I wonder how many tickets have sold so far and why they haven’t announced the ‘special guest’ to boost sales.

I have to agree with most of the comments here, and this years line up is not the bets I have ever seen.
Add in an ageing fan base (We don't camp any more because of Kims arthritis) and you have the makings of a perfect storm.

Other than trying to attract a younger punter by putting on current bands (expensive) I'm not sure what the answer is.

The fact that both headliners have appeared before doesnt help and people who go every so often may choose this one to miss. Although very often I find the headliners the least appealing. I thought last years line up was excellent apart from the Thursday headliner.

….and thats the point isn’t it Bill , money is tight, people , including me, are choosing their fests based on lineup…..not nostalgia for an event long changed…..

The matter of the 'Special Guest' is curious.

Have they not disclosed him for fear of putting people off?

Does the ability to pay his fee depend on an incremental increase in sales?

I do wonder if it’s time for Cropredy to come to an end, and the band does a much smaller summer event focusing on them and associated friends/acts, similar to what Show of Hands do at Abbotsbury…

I suspect it's a slightly milder version of the former - someone that the majority would simply shrug their shoulders at.

What, you mean like Cropredy was?  ;) ;D

I suspect a new venue though would probably assist in drawing a line and starting anew and reframing what this new event was (rather than seeing it as a 'lesser' Cropredy)

I am wary of posting here as I haven’t been a Cropredy regular since2016 but there were almost 30 Cropredies before that.
I could reiterate views here , aging demographic ,a lineup that doesn’t appeal to a wider demographic etc
BUT…..
there is a wider argument.
The way people consume music and I use the word deliberately, is changing.
I look at the numbers going to Costa Fests, that older demographic watching the same bands in the warmth of hotel in a Ibiza etc ,( yes I know it rained this year) …or watching Show of  Hands and Richard Thompson on a river cruise!
Venues are closing , people aren’t risking money on unknown acts . I play at and attend a lot of venues and I feel music is going underground again , music fans creating small venues and finding a niche….Temperance Bar in Leamington Spa is a great example.
Festivals are becoming more boutique …….(!)
This year I will again attend Warwick Folk Fest , lovely setting , gigs in marquees , a line up that appeals.
Sadly it’s same weekend as Cambridge . Cambridge is interesting in that last yr they tried to appeal to a younger audience, hip hop on the main stage, ditching some of the folk tents but this yr they are back to being a Folk Fest.
I am also going to Between  the Trees , nr Bridgend, 1000 people, probably all considerably younger than me, a couple of acts I know and an awful,lot I don’t, cos that’s what appeals to me these days.
Sorry, I don’t want to see Digance , Tony Christie, Wakeman, Buggles, Focus, Feast of Fiddles  again,or Fairports  doing their concert set. Seen that. Ranagri are playing so they may support Christie. I saw them at NFFF a few yrs ago. They were good , he was awful……imho…..but if you do want to sing Amarillo in a field…..people may even stand up…..😇😳🤣🤦‍♀️
Fairports and Cropredy have been a hugely important part of my life. Friends and music I love.
I stood on the field with my best male mate , sometime in the early 2000’s, watching Fairports . ‘ They’re playing well ‘, I said. ‘ Yes’, he said. Simple as that. We had gone to see Fairports. As we had for far too many years. We sprinkled his ( Gareth’s)/ashes on the field in 2012 during MOTL
When Gareth died, his widow gave me his Cropredy Farewell Concert Poster from outside the Brase in 1979. It hangs in our ‘snug’ next to a Fairport Poster with Swarb on it..Tempis Fugit …but that memory……and a thousand others …..will do.
Onwards to whatever music may be around the next corner…..

I think the Brase is almost doing that. I’m not sure what will happen with parking if people just drive to the Brase for a day but a lineup that has a Jon Palmer Acoustic Band and Steve Knightlys new band on it , appeals…..You can get in with a Cropredy wristband but ticket holders will take precedence……

You’re a mate Bill , so I can do this.
So you’re not really going to a fest. You’re going to afield to meet up with some mates and it doesn’t matter if there’s music on or not……?

Are that older aging demographic , who do not want to be cold and wet in a field anymore, not doing things like this……
https://www.harmonyvoyages.co.uk/danube-river-cruise-with-fairport-convention-and-anna-ryder/

Sold out! I must say, it does rather appeal to me….

The music still plays a large part and there is much that I will enjoy, it’s just some of the headliners leave me a bit cold, but then the festival is not about pleasing me and I know there are  many who are more than happy with the lineup.
As for the meeting friends bit, that is a massive draw for me. There are many who we only see at this one festival and there is nothing that will ever match that Meet On The Ledge moment on the Saturday night.
Talking of friends, it’s been far too long since we saw your good self!

My tongue was in my cheek Bill. I fancy Friday but as you say headliners don’t attract me…..quite simply I’ve seen them before!   and I always tended to go with a group of friends rather than meet people at the fest. That group is now sadly depleted.

It did appeal to a younger demographic. I was 27 at the first  Cropredy. I’m 72 now . It’s just that younger demographic has aged with the band.,

Absolutely…I was about 30ish when I first went. It was very much smaller and everyone sat on blankets…We couldn’t manage that now, not all weekend, for sure! The trouble is, as I mentioned before sometime, Cropredy might not give many of today’s younger people what they want, in terms of cool stuff to post on Insta!

There are many more trendy festivals around, so many festivals have popped up since those days it’s a bit of a saturated market and I guess artists can take their pick of the most luctrative.

A slight aside but Cambridge Folk Fest are  also advertising hard, I was messaged today. Perhaps it’s the larger fests that are hardest hit……

I offer myself up as an example of the problem they face. When I first went to Cropedy I was in my 20s. I was was working, had a healthy disposable income was fit, adventurous and enthusiastic. My main emotion was excitement. And that was sustained for about 25 years

Now I am in my 60s. My pension will not really stretch to the ticket cost. My knees ache. My back aches. I have various other health niggles. I don't want to crawl around on the ground or sit in a big field in a rainstorm without shelter with 15,000 other people. It all seems like an ordeal when there are much more accessible and manageable alternatives. My main emotion is foreboding.

I suspect I am not alone

You do what is best for you. I'm in my 60s and in pretty good health and still looking forward to camping for the festival. Bought my tickets as usual before the line up was revealed but this year has got to be the first year in ages when I've been so disappointed with headliners and sub headliners. Just think the organisers for whatever reasons have not put together a line up that's going to help ticket sales. i hope I'm proved wrong, I really do for the sake of all involved.

I got bored with FC themselves who didn't seem to be putting much effort into the Cropredy sets for the last few years. It started the year they ran out of material with about 15 minutes to go.   The Saturday sets became the winter tour with a guest or two thrown in and not a lot of spontenaity..  The other thing is due to my feet and knees I can't do standing gigs, never mind 3 days in a field in all weathers, anymore.  I miss seeing the friends but, at 71, not the pain.
     Festivals carried on happily without me before I went to Cropredy for the first time in 1997, I hope it managed to carry on, probably changed somewhat without me.

You are not alone..😉
Pretty much sums up a similar situation here, albeit tinged with a hint of sadness......

And another thing….
Much as I love the occasion, there is an opportunity to sit back in your own armchair, raise a glass to absent friends and listen to the whole thing live online on Radio Oxford who - for all their perceived shortcomings - comprehensively cover the event without the need to pack up a tent the day after. This is working on the assumption that this will be a thing this year.

I hate to say it, but even if it could be guaranteed that the Cropredy weekend would have fantastic weather, the lineup doesn't make the considerable expense worth it for us.

And if, as appears to be the case, tickets just aren't selling in the numbers needed, a decent weather forecast might just make the difference in terms of last-minute ditherers/walk-ups.

On a wider note, it's been stated before that Cropredy is the engine of the band, providing the financial backing that supports them through the rest of the year. If it turns out that the festival just can't continue, what happens to FC?

PLEASE EVERYONE …

Buy your tix this year so that we can all be there again next year!

The thought of losing Cropredy is horrifying!!

😥😥😥

Jim you've said it word for word for me. Haven't been now for 10 years, the line up just doesn't appeal, it's such a lot of money we can have a weeks holiday for that!

I love and cherish the good times and line ups we enjoyed as a family.

Hi Jenny , at the risk of sounding like a Trump supporter MCGA , ( make Cropredy great again!) there have been some very interesting comments on here re people’s feelings about Cropredy.
We all have our fave times for different reasons.
I had a big gap between early 80’s and mid 90s .
95, I had met Sheena and we did our first Cropredy together, in the awning of a friends caravan ! Caravan field!
96 , we were sitting in a local pub , our backs to a couple and I heard the words Fairport. I turned round and we chatted music for 1.5 hours . They became very firm friends. From then on we were part of 18 people ( it varied) who travelled in convoy from S Leics to field 2. Special times. Friendships . 2 day fest so Thurs was spent in the village. Trad lunchtime pint on the  gravestones by Red Lion , quiz from the Canal club . Camped in a circle in field 2 , gazebos, village hall tables, candelabra, white picket fence , gnomes!
People were kidnapped and forced to drink wine if they invaded our space, some stayed for hours!!!!!!
These were the days when the fest was stewarded by volunteers ……you could wander on and off main field before it opened. I stood with 30 others watching RT sound check whilst he asked what we wanted to hear……30 mins of Vincent , Beeswing  etc.
So of course the fest changed when Peggy and Christine split, when it became a 3 day fest, when pro security  arrived and when the Thurs night headliner became more important than Fairports. We went cos it was Fairports Fest.
Yes of course I’m an old f**t , wallowing in nostalgia but they were halcyon days. Many of those friends have gone, aged, moved, died.Travelling and being with those friends, listening to music, some new to me, were special times. I thought Cropredy would always be important but as has been said, people, tastes and fests change.
My Cropredy went a long time ago. 2012 ,Sheena didn’t want to sit in seried ranks , we had lost friends , other fests called. Lamar Tree, Folk in a Field, Ely, NFFF, Langdale, Festiva on  the Edge, Warwick, camebridge, Magpies……. I came to Cropredy  on my own for a few years .camped opposite Bridge stores. Made new friends….
I saw Fairports tour last yr when Mattacks had put them on good form …
So, I hope it happens. I hope you have a wonderful time.
With real affection for the past and the fest…

Just a quick comment on the fact that the festival used to have volunteers and now there’s professional security. Firstly the festival was so much smaller so getting the required amount of volunteers was relatively easy. Secondly and more importantly, as the festival grew thieves from Banbury used to steal from the campsites when everyone was in the concert field. Therefore to stop this happening professional security were hired which stopped the problem immediately. Now all fields are manned and you have to show your wristband to enter a camping field. Having said that my experience with the professional security men and women has been great. Everyone has been friendly and liked a laugh and a joke. I hope that clears up why it’s professional security that are now employed.  

A very special yr ……and we were all missing Maart!
http://fclist.org/cropredy-cropredy-line-ups/cropredy-1997

No probs. I completely understand why pro security happened, I was simply listing changes, As you said the fest grew, it changed, my point really….Sadly our initial interactions with security were not as tempered as yours were.
In tge ensuing yrs, when the security realised the nature of the fest it did stop being bouncers at a night club and became more relaxed.

I'm not sure it was so much smaller was it?  It's been roughly the same size since '87, hasn't it (and certainly since before Chris stopped being involved)?

Btw, I've been thinking about the Special Guest thing and FWIW I reckon it is 'just' Richard, and the reason it hasn't been advertised is because of wanting to maximise the footfall for his tour.  Once that's done and dusted it will be announced (to very little fanfare).

Thanks Hendo.

We all have our reasons for going or not.
I just love it and (apart from the covid years) haven’t missed a year since 1990.

It is very special for me and I really hope this year won’t be the last.

No need for me to say anything more really is there?

I was thinking this ( without the ‘just’ ) because there was clear publicity for Cropredy around the merch stall at his recent gigs, with a banner, flyers and bookmarks. ( Course, Dave Mattacks might have something to do with that as well).

RT is great, but may not necessarily swing it especially for people having seen him on tour …not that he wasn’t brilliant on tour, he was….but that many fans will have seen him in their local areas already.

Interesting thought but if that is the case why hasn’t he been advertised as appearing like every other time he’s appeared. Surely it would make sense to announce him hoping to sell more tickets. Mind you you could use the same argument if the special guest was Paul McCartney!! I have no evidence whatsoever but I do think it’s somebody big who maybe for contractual reasons he/she cannot be announced  My guess and trust me it is a guess, is it’s one of three. James Taylor, Cat Stevens/Yousef or Roger Daltrey. Please don’t ask me why, I haven’t a clue!!😁😁. I just think it has to be someone big because otherwise why say it’s a surprise very special guest. RT to my mind wouldn’t be classed as a surprise very special guest because he’s appeared so often in the past. In a couple of months we’ll find out I guess!!

That's exactly what I've been saying until very recently - he's never been a special guest before, he's always been billed.  But times are different now and maximising his own money making (which he's certainly been doing with his own ticket prices post-Covid) may have been higher up the requirement list than in previous years?

And given the very real and obvious problems with ticket sales this year, if it was one of those three, it makes literally no sense not to mention that fact in order to aid sales (although I do wonder how many Yusuf would actually add to the sales in any case)

Having seen Yusuf’s set at Glastonbury on TV last year, he might attract more people…it was totally different from the set he played at Cropredy previously and catered for fans of his past and present music, it was beautiful.

If the ticket sales don't pick up, at what point will the hardest decision of all have to be taken?

I'm presuming (possibly wrongly) that there's enough in the kitty to pay for this year, but unless there's a spectacular weather forecast spurring a major walk-up, there just won't be enough for the upfront costs for 2025.

So would FC call it and say, in advance, that 2024 will be the final Cropredy? Or will the future not be clear until afterwards?

For reasons already stated I cant go this year but would have had a difficult decision to make if I could. If I knew that this would be my last would I want my final memories to be of this awful line up, probably not. Last years was great (apart from Nile Rogers) so I'll stick with that.

I believe that there's definitely no issues with proceeding this year (because the money is in the bank from previous years), but as you say, 2025 may well be a different matter.

After all such events, the finances take time to finalise, so I'd not expect any announcements for at least a few months.

The way I see it, there are very few options if the finances cannot support a 3-day festival next year.

Reducing the duration to one or two days sounds like it should save money, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The infrastructure costs are going to be very similar to a three-day event, although savings can be made on the cost of the artists booked. But the income from all the vendors will be vastly reduced and some may find it just as difficult as Fairport Convention Ltd to justify their continuing presence. Also, fewer acts probably means less diversity of appeal and fewer tickets sold. Fewer days would also be expected by punters to reduce the ticket costs.

Getting a sponsor would be good, but probably impossible because of the perilous financial state of the UK entertainment industry.

Taking a year off to try to rejig finances and costs might work. But I doubt it. Very few festivals can survive such a hiatus. In fact I can only think of Glastonbury as an example where the festival taking a year off was beneficial.

This malaise is not Cropredy-specific, it is industry-wide and I don't think Fairport have made many miss-steps as such, although this year's artists don't scream "attend me" on the poster as some previous rosters have. Not for the first time, really (for every Alice Cooper there's been a Petula Clark), but this year has pushed the boundaries.

I do think announcing a "Special Guest" will be there is an attempt to engender excitement but the lack of info has been counter-productive. Announcing, say, Robert Plant, would have brought in the punters by the score (probably) but it almost certainly isn't him.  In these circumstances, if it was, they'd have emblazoned him all over the poster. It could still be someone very interesting, my fingers are crossed.

Looking at the Band: Peggy is 76, Simon is 73, Ric 71, Chris 67 and DM 76. DM made it clear a while back that he isn't a permanent band member (although that may have changed, but hasn't been announced) and if Fairport are to continue, he will surely eventually need to be replaced. New blood may well be a good idea, it may change a few things. However, with good health, they can continue a while yet, Jagger and Richards are 80, after all!

I do wish the band and the festival well and have hopes that prospects could improve. We'll have to see how Crops 2024 goes.

We've known it's not Percy for months - he's touring with AK in the US.

Well, I didn't want to rule him out 100%, because aeroplanes. Thus "but it almost certainly isn't him".

But yes.

That's a topic all of its own. I think we're many years past the point at which the band could continue with new members, simply because the lineups have been too stable for too long (if you see what I mean).

I just hope to hear at the end Simon saying the magic words…

“Same time next year!”

I think the logistics in making that work out really would bankrupt Cropredy once and for all ;) ;D

I agree.  I think it was a good idea when Simon originally said that Fairport could carry on with gradually changing members.  But changing them all at once is unlikely to work - look what happened when Ashley tried that with the Albions.  You get a good band of young 'uns, but they also want to have their own careers, so the Albion Band franchise has now disappeared, probably forever (though I'm sure many of us would be happy to see a reunion of the '77-78 Albions for one last blast while they are still all around).

I thought the new Albions were brilliant - a breath of fresh air in a stale old brand.  The only thing they did wrong (I think) was have a promoter who booked a ridiculously over optimistic range of venues for a tour.  They just needed to start small and steady.  An appearance at Cropredy would also have helped hugely.  I always thought that it was a little odd that didn't happen during their two (?) years of existence...

I think the important word is gradually as you say. There always used to be an obvious replacement/stand in for each band member but they are getting thin on the ground now, and many are aging themselves now. ie Gerry was the very obvious replacement for DM. Now who do we have? Matt Pegg, PJ in fact most of Trad Aaaar, Martin Barre, Simon Swarbrick , if they even wanted it.

Agreed!  Can't see why they didn't appear at Cropredy.  Seemed like a shoo in... but then I've thought that about a number of acts who haven't appeared over the years

I thought they were great , live and on album, except that Blair seemed grossly underutilised .

Now a reunion of the Albion Dance Band ("Prospect" & "Rise Up" vintage) , given that Simon , Ric and DM were all members and are already attending Cropredy , that might have seen more tickets sold

But would it?  I suppose a few of us grumpy old 80's and 90s folk-rock Cropredy veterans might have returned for one last hurrah but I'm unsure if that's what this festival needs any more....

But in the smaller kinder friendlier folk-rocking Cropredy festival I'd love to return to it would be absolutely spot on...yes please.

I'd argue that what Cropredy needs is more 80s acts - the kind of thing that will appeal to people currently in their forties/fifties, because let's face it, the original FC fans and Cropredy attendees are well embarked on their seventies now and are going to be less and less likely to turn up, for multiple reasons.

I'm not quite in my mid-fifties and the 80s are absolutely my era for mainstream pop music. Quite a few of the still-working acts that came out of the 80s are recognised for their songwriting and musicianship and would sit very happily on a Cropredy bill.

I realise that Nile Rodgers and Trevor Horn are strong nods in this direction (and they both have 70s crossover too) but the net could be cast wider.

The trouble with that is that Fairport were a Sixties and Seventies band, essentially, when at their peak commercially..albeit not a very high one.
The 'old' audience are of the same vintage.
They are/were into music of that era, and either bought records by or went to see Fairport's contempories when it was the current happening thing. People who were old enough to go to Bath Festival and see Fairport, Pink Floyd, Zappa, Led Zeppelin, Jefferson Airplane, The Byrds and so on. This is why prog acts are popular with a part of the crowd, and also your Steeleyes, John Martyns, Lindisfarnes. (Progressive rock meant something different in 1969.)
The undercard was largely always up and coming acousticy/folky acts, which was what Fairport were in the Eighties. (Acousticy/folky, not up and coming.)
I can't see Fairport fans being Petula or Tony Christie fans - Glasto may get away with one act like that each year - but that's not Cropredy.
I can't see a future for Cropredy with The Human League, Culture Club, Rick Astley, and the Pet Shop Boys, with Fairport playing to a half empty field at the end, either. A Madness or Proclaimers for a bit of variety maybe, but there's plenty of festivals catering to that, and us die hards would go elsewhere, sadly.
If there were any folk festivals left.

It'll be an awful shame if 2024 becomes the final year of Cropredy by default rather than by being planned that way, with a much stronger lineup to go out on.

But these days, who *are* the really strong acts that are both crowd-pullers *and* financially/logistically feasible for Cropredy anyway?


Well, this is my point. Cropredy obviously has to refocus away from that original audience, which it's clearly been trying to do in more recent years, and the people in their forties and fifties would seem to be the prime target - the ones who were teenagers in the 80s and are steeped in that particular era of pop culture, but who also know music from the 60s through to the 90s because they grew up during a period where there was simply a much wider range of music heard on radio and TV and in everyday life.

I don't think aiming much younger than people born from about 1970 onwards is likely to work.

I think whenever Cropredy ends it was always going to be by default. It was always going to be as soon as any given year failed to break even. I can easily see why we might have reached that point. It's core audience has diminished and/or become more risk averse for a number of reasons. The band at its heart are no longer the dynamic, essential attraction that they were even 10 years ago. And the festival is so heavily associated with them, irrespective of who else might be there, that it is not going to stand up to any significant refocussing/rebranding. All things come to an end and it's time may well be up. Indeed the time for festivals generally as a form of mass entertainment may nearly be up unless they have the kind of scale, brand recognition, media reach and more importantly, social media reach of the likes of Glastonbury or the Isle of Wight.

I got a nice cheap copy of Off the Screen DVD for a couple of quid.  Inside was this newsletter for 2010.  £85 in 2010 is £126.87 today (Bank of England inflation calculator).  Ultimately, this tells much of the story (I think), as does the lineup...

I hear you but I think it may be going the other way . Small, boutique ( I don’t like the word ) fests , run by enthusiasts seem to be thriving. The same is happening in small venues, niche music put on by keen, often amateur , promoters……
 

I'd be interested in probing a little with that 'thriving'.  I know people who run a couple of micro festivals (hundred not thousands of attendees but significant artists appearing).  Both of them do it because they love it and not making a loss is the main goal.  But they barely turn a profit...and sometimes make a loss...it's hugely marginal...10 couples not attending can make the difference.  The main goal is people having a good time though...and they do.

Dave, whilst some small venues are very successful, many are struggling to survive. Artists are leaving the profession in droves because they can't sell tickets, even when quite established.

One such artist, a member of a really quite popular band, said recently he had exactly one gig for this year and so had taken up a more reliable job with a regular wage to support his family and household bills.

I'd point to recent FB posts from Sam Sweeney, on the verge of cancelling gigs because the venues can't get an audience big enough to pay for the travel and accommodation, let alone make any profit to pay the band.

I just hope that whatever happens, when the time comes Fairport get to bow out on their own terms (like Show of Hands).

I suspect a solo artist playing house concerts to 40 people could earn considerably more than members of a 5 piece band playing thirty odd 400-1000 capacity venues in a row?  As in so many modern 'markets', the economics just stop making sense at a certain point.

I think a lot depends on what stage of their lives musicians are at. 70 year olds will normally have no young children , no mortgage , be in receipt of state pension and possibly other income including royalties. 30 and 40 year olds are a different kettle of fish altogether. I admit to getting quite irritated when people were stressing because an elderly singer couldnt play gigs due a family illness. Very few of us who are approaching his age have any other material income apart from pensions and manage OK financially. It is now the case that senior citizens are better placed to play gigs and tour than young parents!

Paul McCartney?

I do wonder about some of the survivors of the folk revival days, whether they have much in the way of pensions.  Did they have wise advice in their younger days to keep paying their NI dues, or even to think about personal pensions?  I rather suspect not.  Those who were successful enough to have royalties still coming in may be OK, but others may be struggling if they can't still get out and play gigs.

I'm, I suspect, one of the few that has been to every Cropredy starting on Crossman's lawn. I think what lot's of people have stated, that when you get in your 70's, camping is a lot less fun than when you're in your 20's. We have bought an "higher" airbed because getting up off the floor is a lot of effort but my wife is still dreading the experience and I'm not looking forward to it either !              So that is one reason for lower ticket sales.
   My children, aged 40 & 33 have also been to every Cropredy in their lifetimes but both have said that this years line up contains very little for under 50's, but they are still going. That said, this line up would make it very difficult for them to sell to friends who haven't been before.      Another, and in my opinion, the main reason for low sales.
   In years gone by, I used to "sell" Cropredy to friends by telling them to sample the fringe when parking and admission were free but, of course, this is no longer the case. I know Alice Cooper & Brian Wilson must have cost mega bucks but they did bring in the punters where the likes of Divine Comedy would struggle to sell out my local theatre !
   In my opinion, it is no surprise that numbers are low, proving that it's a big risk thinking that  you can save a bit of money by being "Economical" with the line up.

2 posts removed.

Folks, it's nice to be nice. Let's not get out of that habit.

I completely understand that Andy , even at the level,I play at ( Johnsons Paint League under 13s) there is real competition for spots at festivals.
I have said a few times that music, particularly folk is going underground and it is , as you say enthusiasts , often risking the it own money ( can you hear me Andy Tuck) often promoting niche bands.
I used to curate a fest at which the organisers , all Cropredy fest related) felt they would have to put their hands in their pockets. Streaming has killed income for most musicians so it has to be from live gigs, which as you say are shrinking…..
As I write this I’m off to Nuneaton folk club, I should have been playing but one of band is ill, Damien Barber headlining who will be funded, hopefully from bucket donations, otherwise organisers will be putting hands in pockets ….
But I’ll put this up as a list of what is going on….
http://ukfolkfestivals.co.uk/viewall.php

Yup I'm with Heno on this, Paying gigs are like hens teeth and the competition is fierce.
Never have the words "I've got a daytime job, I'm doing alright" made being a gigging player easier.

Amidst all the bad news about festivals, heartening to see that Beautiful Days is 95% sold out as of today, although they acknowledge the really tough times.

Bearded Theory have tickets on sale for next year, and this years event has only just taken place.
Meanwhile, the UK tour by Heart has been cancelled. (Boo - I had great tickets.)
The reason given was Nancy has to have some medical treatment. I'm not saying this isn't true, but a reschedule might have been enough.

Rough times for live music.

Must me this Heno character…..sounds like a good egg…….😇🤪😳🤣

Decent but not record-breaking sales for Heart's upcoming U.S. tour. They booked big arenas, much bigger than they typically played in the 2010s. I hope all is well with Ann and Nancy and I really hope they rebook the U.K. (On topic I hope insofar as we're discussing the state of the live music industry.)

It’s good news for them, notwithstanding that they usually sell out by March.

Would the end of Cropredy mean the end of Fairport.....

No!!

Would the end of Fairport mean the end of Cropredy?

Maybe... But not necessarily.

Serious answer!
Well it wouldn’t be Fairport Conventions Cropredy Festival any more but it would be interesting to see what it would morph into.
It is arguable that that morphing has been happening for the last 20 yrs.
It has already been noted by several people that in the 90’s , even early 00’s ,Fairports were the focus of the fest, you went for their 4 hr set with friends, RT, Plant, Vikki Clayton, Chris While , Ashley etc etc.
Other acts were a bonus until it became 3 day fest and arguably, the Thursday night headliner became the pull.
The Brase is now a strong fest, could they just move on to the field and be a small fest like early Cropredies?
Probably not economically viable.
There may be another fest on the site, it’s a perfect field if farmers want to rent it out,  in future but Fairports had a relationship with the village, it is a friendly fest , Cropredy Drum n Bass Noizy Fest may not be so welcomed!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ask my neighbouring village who hosted Shambala to the extent that Shambala now keep the site secret…..!

Exactly this.
Cropredy was a meeting of Fairport fans and band members to celebrate a band that wouldn't go away, in spite of corporate nonsense.
I have a recording of FC from '91, I think, where Jonah says at the end, 'Let's keep it our little secret.'
Cropers was The Ledge, where we met all our friends.
We ended up with 'The Ledge' which was an 'opportunity'.
Rebranding it would be to change what it always was at it's core.

I really don't like speaking of it in the past tense...

But that is exactly what happened after Dave and Chris's divorce.  For me, the evidence is clear - the festival changed irrevocably (and I would argue for the worst) once it became this Fairport's Cropredy Convention thing and stopped being Fairport Convention's Annual Reunion.

Have you been to Cropredy since the divorce?
l

I agree but in that instance I guess it was a financial imperative to enable the band to still have their annual weekend in the sun (or sometimes rain). The festival was still Fairport centric even if the line up sometimes wasn't. But Fairport's audience has diminished for all sorts of reasons even if the band is still there to close the event so the feel of the festival has changed. A Fairportless rebranding would be pointless. That option already exists elsewhere and without the emotional/sentimental ties to the village that Fairport bring it has no real raison d'etre.

I agree to a degree.(Hee hee hee.) That was, maybe, the starting point, if not before.
A lot of the changes are due to those wonderful bureaucratic, fun killing, individual restraining types, not the guys themselves.

The Thursday headliner was, at first, more akin to somebody that would have been a Friday one, and that was fine. We just had more music. In 2000, I was lying on the grass reading a book, listening to the music. That was before the changes in organisation.That was 2004, wasn't it ? On the other hand, gone was the Thursday chill out, when you could turn up when you got there, no rush. Camp wherever you fancied, or have friends save a space. Stay in the field and relax and shake off work, or wander down to the village, have a pint and wonder back with a couple of days of music to look forward to,with FC as the climax.
My posse was about equal to the McBastards, then.... (more of us and fewer of them) and we had an annual water fight, until one of us bought a water cannon fire fighting LandRover from the local airfield and decimated them. I'm the only one left. I still have a pint at the Red Lion, though.

Unfortunately, we now had to arrive early in the morning on Thursday, creating queues onto the main road, camp where we were directed, causing complaints and people who decided that the rules didn't apply to them, causing more complaints. Rush to set up the tent and queue to get in the field and run to grab a spot, ironic when we need to sit down because we can't stand up for long or get up if we sit on the grass.

Then the headliners, and others, started to be unrelated to the folky-rock vibe - not necessarily people you wouldn't want to see - but not people who you'd want to see in that field. Supergrass, UB40, Jools Holland, Quo, Badly Drawn Boy, Divine Comedy, Alice Cooper....some of those bands I love, some played great sets and went down well, or great. I like Cropredy because I discover people like the Dixie Bee Liners..bluegrass not being my thing as a rule. I can see those others elsewhere.

Then there's Digance.
I, for one, am happy to have him on every year because it gives me more time to go round the boot sale. Many enjoy him, and that's great, but to some, 'Digance has ALWAYS been there. It's not the same without him' and all that. Well he hasn't, and that's how many of us feel about the early festivals.

Bringing in new people who aren't there for Fairport is not going to preserve what it was.
More likely the field is going to empty 'when those old blokes are on, so we can get an early start packing up the tent and go home.'
 :(

Spot on.  For many people the good ol' days is 20 years ago.  For me, that's when it all started going wrong (and I bailed out 14 years ago now).

As a slight aside, interesting to see Cambridge Folk Fest advertising hard……

Doesn't it always?

Not usually this late…..

Look we are all getting ancient and not inclined to sit in a field.

That and Fairport seem to have a short memory for the unpaid work here.

Not actually the lads, but the management.

I'd be royally pissed off if haveing coughed my cash ages ago, which helps cash flow, somebody who left it to the last few weeks could get it at a reduced rate. And that aside all that says is "next year, dont buy tickets when  they go on sale, wait until the last fortnight and grab a bargain..."  next result is much fewer tx sales, bigger panic, possible early cancellation though woeful ticket sales.

Assuming of course there is a 2025, which im beginning to seriously doubt given Simon's message and the general trends of festivals collapsing.

Many large festivals are indeed that ball park - Bearded Theory set us back a similar amount for example.  Those prices of course reflect the size of the acts playing of course, amount of kit, costs of staging etc etc . Everyone has to make a living and these prices are undoubtably fair.

two weekends ago we went to a 3 day festival, 1000 tickets. two stages a two minute walk (if that) apart. Non stop music 11 hours a day. £4 a pint form the on site brewery. Two of us with campervan - campsite 5 minutes from the arena...  £171 including ticket fee. In a few weeks another similar set up festival and size, 2+CV £225. The bands aren't "as big" - but they are/will be excellent, with their own strong following. And of course the fees etc all reflect that - which is reflected in the cost.

Its easy to see how many would be tempted by such smaller, cheaper festivals.

thats just the way it is.

There isn't a "like" button, so LIKE. bang on.  Especially given even in the last few years the number of festivals has increased hugely. Not just mega enormous blockbuster festivals (and I include Croppers in that!) but smaller, bijou and other music specific festivals. There cannot be a weekend between end of may and early September that wouldn't have a choice of several festivals across the country of all genres and sizes. Its a very crowded market all chasing festival crowd and their £££.

I have said elsewhere that small fests are my main interest these days , so I’ll try not to be dull and it is a pleasure to be chatting on this site again…..
So . Between the Trees.
1000 people fest and some acts I know and a lot I don’t,
Weekend ticket ( Fri Sat ,Sun ) £150
Thurs ticket , limited to 500 people, £20
Camper van £50
Awning £25
Booking fee £12.50.
Total £257.25
You pays yer money and you take a risk on ‘new to you’ bands.
Incidentally I see Glastonbury is costing £65,000,000 to be put on this year….l.

 :)

Pearl Jam London gig prices have apparently been cut drastically to try and get an audience in, with no refunds for those who've already spent £100 or more extra to the current pricing.

And I also note that some bands are turning it down because of the awful appearance money they are being offered.

Thoroughly unimpressed.

And as i said earlier all that says to me is "don't buy tickets early next time and wait for a discounted rate". Which then becomes a self defeating circle from the promotion perspective surely.

Exactly this.

indeed and some on the minor stages have to have purchased a ticket in order to get access to play! Something i hadn't realised until a band I know were unable to play as not all of them had managed to purchase tickets!

WTAF?!

name and shame !  If known etc)

How rubbish that would be, to buy tickets then find them being flogged off cheap. Let alone that if someone then couldn’t go, they wouldn’t recoup their costs by selling tickets to trusted people, like we used to on here, if the last ones were being flogged off at cut-prices.

For the reasons stated above, this is why my idea of a "fire sale" is, to quote myself, a "total fantasy scenario" - unworkable and unfair.

However, the elephant is still in the room.

Being aware that the cost of goods and services, acts, portaloos, staging, crew, etc. has increased vastly, and that £250 is a ballpark average price for a festival ticket nowadays will not suddenly, magically make that sum of money available to me to be able to afford a ticket !

Many of the smaller stages are separate from the main Festival and independently run. So apparently unless you’re on the Pyramid Stage or one of the main stages, you have to work out how you’re getting in even if you have the gig. The Stage was The Rabbit Hole.

So lets say in the worst case scenario - by the end of June not enough tickets sold for Cropredy 2024 to be solvent.

What decisions are made:

• Hope that the walk ins push it over the edge
  
  Cancel and refund everyone, '24 is the finale
  
  Take the hit and '24 is the finale

Then if option 2, the least likely I accept but still an option,  what is the impact on Cream of the Crop, Brasenose Fringe etc ... does their insurance cover cancellation of the main festival?

DW

Surely if folks dont like the line up a reduction wont make much difference to attitudes. I wouldnr pay £50 to see say The Kaiser Chiefs but if they reduced it to £25 it would make no difference.

No, but if they are wavering about attending because of cost, it might make a difference. Not that, for other reasons, which have been expressed by others, I think that it is a workable solution.  And indeed is more likely to hack off those committed fans who have bought their tickets at full price.

But…..
The costs of producing a fest are fixed …..reducing ticket prices means you may get bums on seats but you may still end up with a deficit!

The people that will benefit are the stallholders!

100% of something is still better than 100% of nothing surely.

DW

Not for those that paid 100% of 100% it isnt. They've just been mugged off.

Given how uninspiring so many have found this year's lineup, part of me can't help thinking that announcing that 2024 will be the final Cropredy is the only way they're going to sell enough tickets... although with Towersey and Underneath the Stars already pulling the trigger, is there enough money to go around for "last ever" festivals anyway?

And of course, if an announcement that Cropredy was ending this year means they sell enough tickets, that would mean that 2024 wouldn't need to be the final Cropredy.

If they're going to end up relying on walkups to push them into the black, then a poor weather forecast is surely going to scupper that. Unless, of course, the situation has improved enough since Simon's last message that it's no longer a pressing issue?

So many ifs and buts... it must be a hugely stressful time for the band.

The moment was always going to arrive some time, whether or not it turns out to be 2024. The band know that. They have been saying for 20 years that the first Cropredy that does not turn a profit will be the last Cropredy. Given their audience profile, that point is surely close. After the two cancelled Covid festivals I think people were desperate to get back and support it for themselves and the band but that has dissipated now and more stuff has happened in the interim that discourages people to take risks, financial and otherwise.

The question is where it leaves the band as a functioning unit when (not if) the no longer have Cropredy as the tentpole that supports their infrastructure.

Hi Gub, we may be touching on old ground here but bands that can no,longer afford to tour and are , effectively, cottage industries.
The fact that Show of Hands are blaming economics for stopping touring , who are probably the most effective cottage industry, is indicative of where we are.Oysterband are stopping touring, there  maybe other reasons too .
Can any roots musicians make a living without some other level of income. 3 Daft Monkeys. Honey and the Bear etc.
Fests look busy but 12 fest gigs a year aint keeping a band on the road.
I was talking to Damien Barber at a gig the other night , He’s doing solo gigs ,rapper workshops  etc….
Keeping Demon Barbers on the road isn’t financially viable.
So it becomes solo or duo artists who also have other jobs.
Outlets for roots touring bands are shrinking.
Sad times and we are back to semi pros?
…..and then a Talkawhiler puts up a picture ,tonight, of  a Taylor Swift gig in a huge , outdoor arena……

I think this is all true.  I don't dislike Taylor (or her music), but like in so many other capitalistic markets in the early 2000s, we are now at the stage where only the 'corporations' (i.e. the apex of that particular market) can cut the margins enough, charge whatever they want and create enough demand to make a (vast) profit.  It is of course totally unsustainable, and a reckoning is coming.  God alone knows what that looks like.  In the interim, I do think the 'cottage industry' is the only way for 'smaller' artists to make money.  A devoted audience of 500 who buy anything and everything is going to get you a lot further than 10000 'fans' who don't do anything other than stream your music occasionally and buy bootleg shirts off of Facebook marketplace.

I had a long chat with Ian Telfer at an Oysters gig earlier this year in which he acknowledged that, while the economics are absolutely an issue, simply getting older played a big part - he said that at his age, he can't be schlepping up and down motorways the way he used to.

SoH's decision isn't entirely about economics either; neither Steve nor Phil is retiring, but they want to do other musical things that they don't have time for while maintaining SoH as a regularly-touring unit.

…..and then a Talkawhiler puts up a picture ,tonight, of  a Taylor Swift gig in a huge , outdoor arena……
[/quote]
That would be me then, and I can tell you, that woman certainly knows how to put on a show!
I won’t pretend to like everything she does, but I found a lot to admire in her “Folklore” and “Evermore” albums which led me to investigating more and becoming  a bit of an aging Swiftie!

Having said that, you will also be able to find me supporting festivals of various sizes throughout the summer or having a great time jumping around to The Captain’s Beard in The Dog and Duck pub in Bognor!

On any basis, they are both (I'd argue the second doesn't quite match the first) very very good albums, which I play regularly.  There's so much utterly inane music around, but she makes very very little of it.  So, good on her.  None of this, imho, challenges the reality of the broken system which 'she' bestrides....

Am I alone, in as much as I don't think I have ever knowingly heard anything, clips on the news apart, by Ms Swift?

No, me too Jim.

I understand she is prone to shakes things off, but I saw something on a retrospective BBC show where she performed a perfectly respectable country-pop number which I couldn’t possibly name. She’s no Martina McBride.  ;D ;)

Nor me either Jim.

Add me to the list of the uninitiated.......and don't ask about Stray Kids or BTS...!!!

TS is a modern phenomenon. I've now heard some of her songs and she's impressive.

Being old, though, she can't touch Johnny Cash.

Taylor Swift has made some of the best pop music of recent times. She's a proper talent - she can genuinely sing, play and write.

And she's managed to strike a blow for artists against the corporate bastards over the matter of ownership of master recordings, too.

The insane gig ticket prices are an entirely separate issue, which is all to do with the Ticketmaster/LiveNation hegemony.

Hi Bill, my point was that we are talking about fests dying and grass roots venues closing.
We just seem to be at the point where music is in very small niche venues or the superstars , Springsteen, Swift, Stones , filling massive venues.
It was NOT a criticism of you going to see Ms Swift!😳😇🤣. Just a comment on the state of the music ‘ business’.
Serious question , how was the sound from where you were…

The sound is never going to be crystal clear near the back of a stadium containing 90,000 people, but it was far better than I expected.

None of you have had a teenage daughter in the last 15 years or so then, obviously!

I wish !! (not for the wrong reasons), my youngest is 43!! And they are all boys anyway. Mind you , the youngest took his partner to Edinburgh last week to see Taylor.

Given the titleof this thread, I'm sure they won't mind me quoting from the horse's mouth today:

"On a different tack, this year has not been without difficulties for music festivals and other outdoor events. As Simon wrote in April, the cost of staging festivals has risen sharply and a number of them have gone to the wall.

So it’s not surprising that we’ve had queries from some of you asking how we’re doing in the current climate. Well, the answer is that Cropredy will go ahead as normal. In the longer term, we are confident that with your support Cropredy will continue for many years to come."

From the email newsletter...

That sounds more positive from Simon and Co. My 19 year old daughter saw Taylor Swift on Saturday and loved it. I think that the ticket cost c£80 on the presale, which seems pretty good for a three hr set plus Paramore as support. I also think she’s vey talented, and love the Folklore and Evermore albums. Getting back on topic, I’m going to support a local event and give the Purbeck folk festival a go this year; local to me, good acts that I know maybe half, and looks like a pretty relaxed affair.

Sky wants to stage an intervention

https://news.sky.com/story/music-festivals-need-intervention-as-number-of-cancellations-hits-50-13158213?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR39XdFmi1qETm1FTkXP58qkbhH1Y-M91ONsVDaWGPAA649H6fDREIAt8oA_aem_zNMzVMemxwOdsZtuFlTm1w

Or, indeed, engaged with any source of contemporary pop music since 2009 - she's had 56 top 40 hits since then, including 30 top 10s and 4 number ones. Radio 2 has been regularly playing her for many years now.

It's highly likely that you know a few Taylor Swift songs without realising they're Taylor Swift songs.

Yes, that is absolutely the case. I genuinely would not recognise a single Taylor Swift song. That is not a criticism/judgement. They have just never got on my radar. I haven't listened to any music based radio since Danny Baker last had a music show, except for very rarely Simon Mayo on Greatest Hits in the car.

I would recognise a couple of Jess Glynne songs but only because she played live before the baseball in London a couple of weeks ago. Name virtually any other chart artist of that period and I wouldn't have a clue, apart from Rag n Bone man who happens to have had a couple of big hits on my birthday. Oh and I believe some bunch of youngsters called The Beatles got to number one last year.

Speaking of which, have you seen the story doing the rounds again recently regarding Robb Weir from The Tygers of Pan Tang?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/music/news/the-double-life-of-a-65-year-old-rocker-heavy-metal-with-a-side-of-ham/ar-BB1on7SB
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9x00163e9po
I suspect it's behind a paywall, but in the interests of discussion I've snipped some highlights;

"Robb Weir, clad in tight jeans and covered in sweat, leads a double life.

On a recent night at a London club, he launched into a guitar solo like a 1980s British rock hero, aiming the neck of his guitar at the loving crowd, throwing back his head and pretending to unleash a hail of bullets at 200 fans who recall the era when he strutted the big stage.

Days later, Weir was dressed in a waistcoat and tartan tie, serving tea and ham-on-ciabatta sandwiches to passengers on the 13.43 train from Newcastle to Edinburgh.

Weir, 65 years old, is the longtime lead guitarist of the heavy-metal band, Tygers of Pan Tang, known for such high-decibel songs as “Crazy Nights,” “Hellbound” and “Rock ‘N’ Roll Man.”
For the past 20 years, he also has been a train steward. “It’s not very rock ’n’ roll, but it is a pretty concrete way to make a living,” Weir said, “with a great pension.”

The Tyger tune, “Only the Brave,” has streamed 6.5 million times on Spotify. That sounds like a lot. But every million streams brings in only £400, about $510 for the five band members on the recording, Weir said. After expenses, Weir is lucky to take home £100 from a gig, he said.

Weir’s record royalties and tour income from the Tygers were never enough to retire on. The winner-take-all economics of music streaming leaves only live performances for small acts to make money. One problem has been that many smaller U.K. concert venues closed during the pandemic.

He is sometimes surprised by his various fans. After playing a recent gig with the Tygers, one of them recognized him.

Aren’t you the guy who sells tea and sandwiches on the train from London?"

I rather think she wouldn't want to😱

There are of course, 20 year olds, who don’t know who the Beatles where…..

As said, you almost certainly know at least one Taylor Swift song without realising it's a Taylor Swift song :)

 ;D ;D ;D

Jules

And I contend I almost certainly don't. Where would I have heard it? I don't consume any media where mainstream music is being played. I also don't know what she looks like.

I do keep a playlist of one hit for every year of my life from my birthday but the recent ones are just a download of whatever was at the top of the chart that day, purchased unheard. No Taylor amongst them I'm afraid. It is possible to live from day to day without hearing or at least without registering modern mainstream music. As I said earlier, I am not consciously avoiding her specifically. I am just never in places where she gets played (I don't go to shops, bars etc so I don't tend to get bombarded with the constant barrage of music that afflicts many public places).

Do we possibly have a slight topic drift?

DW

Welcome to TalkAWhile.

Need to get back on topic,
swiftly...

Well, what actually is the topic now? Simon said there might not be a Cropredy. Now we know there is a Cropredy and will continue to be a Cropredy. Storm in a teacup. End of topic.

I wonder if their bank manager agrees...

Must be true then……

I read Simon's latest message as a 'Ooops, that spread a dark cloud didn't it ? Let's try a more positive approach.' thing.
The situation remains that they need to make a certain amount of profit out of Cropredy to keep going another year as is normally the case, but they have additional concerns to contend with, that other festivals, and maybe concert tours, are also facing.

This year will go ahead, but after that, we shall see.

And High court judges😂😂😂

 ;D ;D ;D

Heavens! Surely we aren't about to have a Tay-Tay thread!  ;D

I see that due to an unfortunate incidence of illness in the band, Pearl Jam have had to cancel their half-empty show at a day’s notice. Not great news if you’ve booked travel, hotels and paid an exorbitant ‘booking fee’.

That is shoddy as ****.  Unimpressive (to say the least).

Similar to the Heart show I got tickets for being cancelled due to illness, along with John From Austin saying sales in the States were less than capacity. At least I got a full refund and travel and hotels were not an issue.

Cinema attendances are also way down at the moment.
I guess with the cost of living situation, entertainment is less a priority than food and bills for more and more folks.

In the case of cinema attendances, the lack of decent films doesn't help. I generally go to the cinema at least once a week but have only been once in the last three months and that was for a documentary. There is just nothing inspiring making it to my local screens at the moment.

Lots of people like to say things like that, but unless you are almost literally living in a cave with no access whatsoever to the everyday world, it's extremely difficult to so completely isolate yourself from mainstream popular culture that you have literally no contact at all with any aspect of it.

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard a modern song or artist being mentioned, and I've never heard of it, but when I actually hear it, I realise that I do recognise it. Things get played in the background of the modern world all the time.

Put another way... it's vastly more likely that you've heard a Taylor Swift song without realising that it's a Taylor Swift song, than it is that you've never ever heard a Taylor Swift song.

Unless you really do live in a cave, of course ;)

Is this thread not about the future of the Festival?

Obviously, I am not a frequent contributor on here and part of the inner circle, but do put stuff on Fairporters and Fairports Cropredy Festival on FB.

The village are very much behind the continuation. This is no small factor in how the festival moves ahead.

The Brasenose are exploiting the opportunity, and while not affecting the attendance directly, are making a difference. Does this affect the real festival? I am not sure, but please contribute to the discussion.

Field 8 are very much the low key insidious player. They do not charge for attendance, but £130 for camping is a big profit when added to their money making from the bar and food! Is this a good thing?

I am delighted to contribute to the festival by being there, eating in the village, eating on the field, getting CDs in the tent, buying mech from the tent and above all else trusting to the festival team that I will ultimately like the acts on the bill. Am I wrong to do this?

Is the one stage the best thing? I think it is, but how would a change work in future festivals at the same venue?

Are chairs a good thing for the demographic? They are now part of the fabric of the festival, but how should they be managed?

There are more festival related subjects that are directly correlated to Simon's original post we could contribute to.

I think the point was made (at least partially by me) at some point in this thread or a similar one that the organisers missed the boat with the whole desire to remain stubbornly one staged (despite being virtually the only 3-day festival I can think of that is) thereby allowing outside parties (of whatever intent) to step in an monetise their own events, which wouldn't happen without the audience driven by the festival.  It's a classic victim of your own success thing.  In my own view there are only two options from this point - follow the commercial trail and eventually freeing the 'Cropredy Convention' from the imprisonment of being Fairport's festival (I don't mean commercially, I mean 'musically' and to do with its heritage), or return to being a much smaller celebration of Fairport Convention's history and other similar music.  I'm not sure the first would work - there's a lot of chasing your tail to do with that one.  The second could work but on a much, much smaller scale.  It won't happen though...

Nice discussion points, Ken and David.

I think if chairs went, 70%+ of the current demographic would find it impossible to attend. It is lucky at Cropredy that people can still take chairs and their own food/drinks as well.

Chairs seem okay…if people stay inside the walkway lines which most do, then they aren’t an issue…(now let’s not mention huge blankets with ten chairs round them and the owners having vacated the space to go off for hours! Nor start the dog and baby debate.)  ;D

More than one stage would totally change the nature of it, I like the idea of it going back to something smaller and more folk-based.

Ken, the thread strayed a bit because it's not just Cropredy that is facing issues, but other festivals, other music events, and other forms of entertainment.

Some are doing fine...Beautiful Days has sold out, as one example.

We have been exploring different thoughts as to why this may be.
Some to do with the festival itself, some to do with external events.

As with most conversations, there is a bit of topic drift and irrelevancies that crop up now and then.

But that's people for you...they do like to Talkawhile.

Field 8 is an excellent point. Would it exist in the future in any format without Cropredy? I know a few people who don’t bother with the ‘main’ festival and just hang around there or the village. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just another factor. I’ve always liked the extra/fringe events (does anyone remember the big screen somewhere near the canal showing Rocky Horror?), but the balance has definitely tipped away from Fairport being the reason for the majority to attend.  Cropredy holds a very special place in my heart, having spent a weekend there for my entire adult life (from the day I got my A level results in 1989 to 2024 as a 53 year old with dodgy knees), but everything has a natural shelf life (including my knees it seems). I’d love a one-day, ‘Fairport and friends’ event with fringy stuff the night before, but appreciate that it is not practical.

Can someone who knows how split this off into its own thread please? I would like to respond but don't want to further clutter this thread.

You make good points :-)

I have heard say, that relations between the folks at 'Field 8' and the Brasenose and Main festival are....difficult....

 
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I have heard say, that relations between the folks at 'Field 8' and the Brasenose and Main festival are....difficult....
[/quote]

If that is the case it might not be a surprise.

From Fairporters on FB where the author posted this (from Today's Times)

"With great thanks to Simon Nicol, Stevie and Andy at Iconic,
Eliza Amy Forbes Carthy, Katherine Priddy, Joe Heap (Towersey), Claire Horton and many more for helping me pull together this piece on the endangered species that is the folk festival"

That £130 is for 6 nights camping.
£21.66 per night for 1 unit and 2 adults is very reasonable I think?
But then I am a little bit biased.

Glasto is having a fallow year next year. Other festivals have normally reaped the benefits the last few times they've done that.

2026 actually.

Ta. Must have misheard/read!