Listening to

[Andy]

I take it you've heard the SACD 5:1 mix of DSoTM? It's really very good indeed. See here for the amazon entry.

[Randlepmcmurphy]

One of the best albums the Who produced, better than Tommy.

Quadraphonic hi-fi never really took off, as you say. I think it was a problem with severeral different competing systems, and a high price tag.

Paul

If you mean produced by sound i would have to differ with you there Paul. I thought for years there was always something not quite right about the sound on that one. Even after hearing it on many different systems and in many different formats it always sounded under produced. Then a while back i read an interview with Roger Daltrey where he said if he could ever go back and change any Who album it would be Quadrophenia, because his vocals are awash with echo all the way through the album and there is no way they can be wiped off now.

[Liam Schwilik]

Andy,

No.... 5:1, I've not got into that yet! It's bag of worms for me. It seems like it could be an incredible possibility. However, I do have some major reservations. Most people have not got a clue about setting up their Hi-fis, let alone getting the phase of the speaker’s right. I hear so many systems that sound ****!

I walked into the very good Tool Box shop in my "local" town Colyton, and nearly fell over with dizziness from hearing the shop speakers set either side of the counter, obviously out of phase! On telling the shop assistant "Your speakers are out of phase", "Cabbage crates over the briney" would have induced more of a reaction!! Straight over his head! By the look on his face, I realised I should move on, rapidly.

My one and only experience of 5:1 was mixing the Fairport Live at The Anvil DVD. It was a huge learning curve, having spent some months researching all of the issues relating to 5:1. and then having only two days two mix it! The conclusion that I came to, having spoken to many people experienced with mixing 5:1, and having read a load of literature on the subject, was to mix it basically in stereo. The only 5:1 additions were the hall ambience being placed in the rear L&R. Some sub on the bass and floor tom. Leaving the centre channel clear and not used at all. It was all mixed using stereo monitors and a sub box, so that I could sum the 5 channels to stereo. There were some spacey echoes from Ric's fiddle flying around at some point (Just like Ric). I think it worked o.k. Have you heard it?

The other reason I have not got into it is that the room and equipment you need in order to do it fully, needs to be huge. Until I win the lottery (that I never do), it will not happen. Anyway, what's wrong with mono, I love it, it's my friend? We spend most of our lives listening to what is essentially mono sound, that the only reason it's stereo is because we have two ears.

 

Mark

[Anji]

We spend most of our lives listening to what is essentially mono sound, that the only reason it's stereo is because we have two ears.
Mark

Mark! What a wonderful line. You can have ALL the wine gums   

[Liam Schwilik]

Hi Anji,

Ta luv, can I have some red and black ones please? Never enough of those!

Strange as It may sound, what model phone do you own?

Mark

[Andy]

I've heard (and seen) the anvil dvd. Maybe I'm unlucky but the sound on mine isn't that great, to be frank. The applause has a hollow, phased sound that just sounds very odd indeed. The songs are ok, as I recal, but the applause grates every time. Sorry.Probably a result of only two days to mix it, as you say.

I think you underestimate the ability of people to set up 5:1. Those who choose to buy the kit do tend to set it up better than a shop assistant.  My kit isn't necessarily the best, but was a worthwhile £n spent down at Richer Sounds and Spatial Audio in Tottenham Court Road.

What's wrong with mono? Sigh. Well, in my humble opinion, what's wrong is that it's a single sound source and even the best speakers will cause instruments and voices to be lost.

The 5:1 mix of DSoTM is darned brilliant and the separation is spectacular.

Fashions change, of course, with early stereo you got an entirely different mix to that you'd get now. The early sterophonic Beatles are very much two mono tracks run through either side. I remember hearing The Impressions (before Curtis Mayfield hit it really big)  in stereo for the first time and falling over with joy at such a great sound, with each singer in their own place across the room at and between the speakers.

[Cocker Freeman]

Bugger 5.1. I'm listening to Tom Waits "Dead And Lovely" from "Real Gone" on a Tesco 15 quid CD player and it's a great song isn't it?







Barry says:  Modified to remove offensive language

[Paul]

One of the best albums the Who produced, better than Tommy.

Quadraphonic hi-fi never really took off, as you say. I think it was a problem with severeral different competing systems, and a high price tag.

Paul

If you mean produced by sound i would have to differ with you there Paul. I thought for years there was always something not quite right about the sound on that one. Even after hearing it on many different systems and in many different formats it always sounded under produced. Then a while back i read an interview with Roger Daltrey where he said if he could ever go back and change any Who album it would be Quadrophenia, because his vocals are awash with echo all the way through the album and there is no way they can be wiped off now.

Sorry Randle, I used produced in the wrong sense. Should have used released.

I think it contains Townshend's best writing, and shows up the musicianship of the others, especially Entwhistle, who I think was actually a better musician than Townshend.

Paul

[Anji]

Hi Anji,
Ta luv, can I have some red and black ones please? Never enough of those!
Strange as It may sound, what model phone do you own?
Mark

(beaming)
Carey calls me "pet"
David Hughes called me "poppet" (once)
Cocker Freeman calls me all sorts of lovely geograpical features
and Mark Tucker has called me "luv"  

I have a Sony Ericsson T630 (I think. I'm a girl...so how can I possibly be sure?    It's silver.   )

now...back on topic  
When you've time to spare, I'd like to hear what you think of the work of Peter Hammill.

 

[jude]

Wow, Jude, you were there at the cutting edge of what is now a market leader. Amazing story. What clients did the studio cater for while you were there? Did Pete Townsend make any appearances?

Mark

Crikey, you're asking me to dredge my memory here. Remember I was only on the reception during the day so mostly I only got to see the debris of the night before. I remember Robert Fripp and Keith Tippett and the extraordinary Frank Perry who was a percussionist who insisted on playing nude (that caused a bit of a kerfuffle) recording Septober Energy. Roxy Music were there as well somewhere. Oh and Donny Osmond plus all his little fans I remember that. Stud. Their manager was one of the directors too. So they were often around. I best remember the engineers Ray and Andy Hendriksen and Phil Leaver the Disc Cutter.....
I'll have to have a google and see who else was around.
Jude

[Liam Schwilik]

Andy,

I remember now. The Anvil live recording audience was mastered out of phase. Unfortunately the video editor who mastered the final copy screwed that part up totally! I think he shifted a file a phase too far and didn't realise it! The files that were supplied were fine. Not my recording though, just mix, but what can you do when it's out of your hands?
I know the mixes that left my studio were cool.

Re: production issues... A job like the Anvil recording is flaky when it comes to production issues. It was a commission by a video company. No one person is there to see the product through. With live recordings often you have a separate recording engineer, mix studio and mix engineer, video/sound editing studio and engineer and complex mastering issues. There are many things that can go very wrong. In the case of the Anvil, as I now remember, things did go wrong. Funny how my selective memory was how it sounded in the studio. I was very depressed and only listened to the final DVD once.

There are two FC DVDs and both as I remember had huge problems with issues relating to sound. The other that Rob Bravinor mixed had very similar issues to that of the Anvil. Tight budgets, and no acting producer!

Mark

[Paul]

I used to like Roxy Music. Have you worked with them Mark?

Paul

[Liam Schwilik]

Hi Paul,

No, but I used to like some of the singles.

Mark

[Andy]

I remember now. The Anvil live recording audience was mastered out of phase. Unfortunately the video editor who mastered the final copy screwed that part up totally! I think he shifted a file a phase too far and didn't realise it! The files that were supplied were fine. Not my recording though, just mix, but what can you do when it's out of your hands?
I know the mixes that left my studio were cool.

It's bleedin' irritating. I ripped the dvd audio to play in the car and ended up editing as much of the audience out of it as I could.

[Andy]

Bugger 5.1. I'm listening to Tom Waits "Dead And Lovely" from "Real Gone" on a Tesco 15 quid CD player and it's a great song isn't it?

5:1 doesn't suit all music or even genres - no point in listening to a solo artist in a 5:1 mix, as you say. But when it works, it really works. Tom Trauberts Blues would gain nowt.

[Liam Schwilik]

Andy,

I  couldn't agree more - It's really ******  irritating!

Final point on Quadraphenia: The content is more important than the sound. As with any recording. Capturing that is half the job. But we can't dismiss those older and some, less hi-fi friendly recordings as ****! We/I still play James Brown because it kicks. Not for it's great sound. The same with some Aretha and plenty of others, especially wid da blues?

Jude,

You have been around! Donny Osmond heh? And two disk cutters talked about in one day!!

Mark

[Jim]

seeing as how mark has just had the last word on Quadrophenia can i just say that i saw the who when q came out at the kings hall belle vue in manchester and they used quadrophonic sound for the live show.  it was a nightmare we heard the sea lapping gently on brighton beach but not too much else
 instead of the speakers on the stage they were positioned around the hall and depending on what was playing out of the set near you, that was what you heard
  they never did that again on tour,
  yes the ox was probably a better musician but townshend was the genius but not too shabby as a guitar hero






one liner? ill tell you about one liners boyo

[jude]

Jude,

You have been around! Donny Osmond heh? And two disk cutters talked about in one day!!

Mark

Coo yes I should say! Just wish I could remember it all better. I was there for about 6 months or less in 1972 so a while ago

jude

[Liam Schwilik]

Anji,

Peter Hammill, he of the Vadergraffe Generator fame? I believe they have reformed? Myslef and Ed from the group Flook were talking about him just the other day! he's also from Bath you know?

I have enjoyed a lot of his stuff. Quite dark though, but I like a bit dark!

Not listened anything of his for years other than from a bloody great compilation that David Hughes did for me recently, which had some of his stuff on it.

 

Mark

p.s. I'm working on the phone call sign.

[Anji]

Peter Hammill, he of the Vadergraffe Generator fame? I believe they have reformed? ......Not listened anything of his for years other than from a bloody great compilation that David Hughes did for me recently, which had some of his stuff on it.
Mark
p.s. I'm working on the phone call sign.

Don't know about actually reforming, but VdGG are playing at the RFH in May.....tickets on eBay currently around the £450.00 mark, I'm led to believe  And,      , no, mine's not for sale.

I've loved Peter Hammill's stuff for - blimeyheck - 29 years! And the last - Incoherence - is strong and tender and powerful and oh! beyond vocabulary. 

Some PH on a compilation from David Hughes, eh?      He has exceptionally good taste, don't you think? 

Lovely re phone call sign (erm..I'm assuming that's bigspeak for a "ringtone"?); thank you.