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Author Topic: Crosby and/or Stills and/or Nash and/or Young  (Read 8552 times)
Jules Gray
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« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2021, 11:40:14 PM »


Unfortunately he's a drug-addicted arsehole of the first order and even if he isn't hitting them these days, the damage to his body and to his relationships with many in the music industry (not just SN&Y) is permanent and so are the scars that he left when dealing with his issues by lashing out at anybody and everybody.


Overly harsh, in my opinion.  He was a drug addict, but then so was Stills.  Crosby's very opinionated, and he's got a big mouth.  True, he's burned some bridges, but then so has Neil, so has Stills, so has Nash.  Stills made such a pest of himself during his cocaine years that he pretty much deep-sixed his career.  And Nash has to take his fair share of the blame in the Crosby/Nash fall-out - it isn't all Crosby's doing.  But then again, lots of rock stars have acted like prize idiots.  Does this mean that if suitably contrite, they shouldn't be forgiven?  No.  These "boys" aren't getting any younger, and it will be best for everyone if they find a way of forgiving each other.  Nobody should go to the grave holding a grudge over anything that can be patched up.

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« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2021, 09:27:24 AM »



Unfortunately he's a drug-addicted arsehole of the first order and even if he isn't hitting them these days, the damage to his body and to his relationships with many in the music industry (not just SN&Y) is permanent and so are the scars that he left when dealing with his issues by lashing out at anybody and everybody.


Overly harsh, in my opinion.  He was a drug addict, but then so was Stills.  Crosby's very opinionated, and he's got a big mouth.  True, he's burned some bridges, but then so has Neil, so has Stills, so has Nash.  Stills made such a pest of himself during his cocaine years that he pretty much deep-sixed his career.  And Nash has to take his fair share of the blame in the Crosby/Nash fall-out - it isn't all Crosby's doing.  But then again, lots of rock stars have acted like prize idiots.  Does this mean that if suitably contrite, they shouldn't be forgiven?  No.  These "boys" aren't getting any younger, and it will be best for everyone if they find a way of forgiving each other.  Nobody should go to the grave holding a grudge over anything that can be patched up.

Jules


And 3.5 decades since David was a drug addict too.  He smokes (and sells!) weed but that's it, I believe.  I don't care - he's made some of the most sublime music ever made.  Love the art and not the artist and all that...
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« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2021, 10:02:54 AM »

"Love the art and not the artist and all that..." - well that's an argument on a whole different scale.

35 years ago his well known hard drug misuse may have been, but it was 2014 when he described Neil's wife as  “a purely poisonous predator”.

In 2016 Graham maintained, “I don’t like David Crosby right now. He’s been awful for me the last two years, just ******g awful”. Nash continued, “I’ve been there and saved his ******g ass for 45 years, and he treated me like s**t. You can’t do that to me. You can do it for a day or so, until I think you’re going to come around. When it goes on longer, and I keep getting nasty emails from him, I’m done. **** you. "

So not all his issues are "3.5 decades ago".

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« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2021, 01:35:18 PM »

One of the things I have always found hilarious about CSNY is the chasm between what they represented to their audience at the height of their success (the very epitome of that Laurel Canyon, pastoral peace/love aesthetic) and who they actually are as people.

I remember seeing Celebration At Big Sur in my teens and thinking, what a bunch of selfish, unpleasant, egotistical, hypocritical ******s!

But the music is divine.
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« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2021, 01:56:20 PM »


One of the things I have always found hilarious about CSNY is the chasm between what they represented to their audience at the height of their success (the very epitome of that Laurel Canyon, pastoral peace/love aesthetic) and who they actually are as people.

I remember seeing Celebration At Big Sur in my teens and thinking, what a bunch of selfish, unpleasant, egotistical, hypocritical ******s!

But the music is divine.


Hear hear, which is exactly why I think my Love the art, not the artist maxim is spot on.  My favourite artist is Eric Gill ffs (don't even begin to investigate why you wouldn't want to invite him around for dinner).  Crosby's always sounded like an arse.  But hell, how many of us have created IICORMN?
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« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2021, 02:42:26 PM »


One of the things I have always found hilarious about CSNY is the chasm between what they represented to their audience at the height of their success (the very epitome of that Laurel Canyon, pastoral peace/love aesthetic) and who they actually are as people.

I remember seeing Celebration At Big Sur in my teens and thinking, what a bunch of selfish, unpleasant, egotistical, hypocritical ******s!

But the music is divine.


One thing that jumped out at me when I read Nash's Wild Tales book was on the day Crosby was released from prison Nash and their manager "bought him the biggest steak he'd seen in a year." Somewhat different to the likes of McCartney and Harrison and their vegetarian lifestyles.

Also on the one hand he's played a lot of benefit gigs for environmental causes but his own carbon footprint must be pretty bad as he has various properties including a house in Hawaii and must have flown countless thousands of miles every year.

A case of "do as I say, not as I do."  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2021, 03:08:12 PM »


One thing that jumped out at me when I read Nash's Wild Tales book was on the day Crosby was released from prison Nash and their manager "bought him the biggest steak he'd seen in a year." Somewhat different to the likes of McCartney and Harrison and their vegetarian lifestyles.

Also on the one hand he's played a lot of benefit gigs for environmental causes but his own carbon footprint must be pretty bad as he has various properties including a house in Hawaii and must have flown countless thousands of miles every year.

A case of "do as I say, not as I do."  Roll Eyes


Eating steaks, and going on aeroplanes.  I guess that makes me a colossal bastard as well then.  Are we done now, picking holes in his moral fibre?

 Roll Eyes

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« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2021, 04:17:08 PM »



One of the things I have always found hilarious about CSNY is the chasm between what they represented to their audience at the height of their success (the very epitome of that Laurel Canyon, pastoral peace/love aesthetic) and who they actually are as people.

I remember seeing Celebration At Big Sur in my teens and thinking, what a bunch of selfish, unpleasant, egotistical, hypocritical ******s!

But the music is divine.


Hear hear, which is exactly why I think my Love the art, not the artist maxim is spot on.  My favourite artist is Eric Gill ffs (don't even begin to investigate why you wouldn't want to invite him around for dinner).  Crosby's always sounded like an arse.  But hell, how many of us have created IICORMN?


Yes, Gill is hard to defend. I always feel uncomfortable whenever I walk past Broadcasting House. The trouble is, the more you learn about almost anyone, the more flawed they become. I have now read, seen and heard so much about the Beatles that I actively dislike all of them as individuals to a greater or lesser extent. Grin
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« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2021, 04:27:40 PM »


The trouble is, the more you learn about almost anyone, the more flawed they become. I have now read, seen and heard so much about the Beatles that I actively dislike all of them as individuals to a greater or lesser extent. Grin


All human beings are flawed.  We need to stop being so judgemental about each other.  As long as we're trying to do better, then that's a good thing.

Jules
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« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2021, 02:48:06 AM »

This might be total gas, but I think when Crosby is musically burning on all cylinders (as he has been for the last several years) he’s apt to burns bridges with old ties as well. It’s been sorta like the Byrds all over again. I’m not saying it’s intentional - it just appears there’s a destructive element in his nature when he’s in that zone, and perhaps subconsciously, it’s a purging agent to allow his music to evolve where it needs to go. I would have loved for him to have remained in the Byrds, finished Notorious Byrd Brothers and continued contributing those songs that otherwise found their way into CSN (and sometimes Y), but he’d grown too big for his britches in the Byrds. It was time to go, and in the end, probably for the best. I’m sorry there been a lot of hurting involved, but sometimes such is art.

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Jules Gray
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« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2021, 11:32:06 AM »


This might be total gas, but I think when Crosby is musically burning on all cylinders (as he has been for the last several years) he’s apt to burns bridges with old ties as well. It’s been sorta like the Byrds all over again. I’m not saying it’s intentional - it just appears there’s a destructive element in his nature when he’s in that zone, and perhaps subconsciously, it’s a purging agent to allow his music to evolve where it needs to go. I would have loved for him to have remained in the Byrds, finished Notorious Byrd Brothers and continued contributing those songs that otherwise found their way into CSN (and sometimes Y), but he’d grown too big for his britches in the Byrds. It was time to go, and in the end, probably for the best. I’m sorry there been a lot of hurting involved, but sometimes such is art.


Not sure how much of a factor this is, or which came first, the chicken or the egg.  It's certainly very much Neil Young's modus operandi.

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« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2021, 09:29:23 PM »

I have been listening to the Deja Vu boxed set again to and once again, as with every time since I first heard it in about 1974, when Croz sings, "Must be because I had the flu for Christmas," I always think, "What a terrible present and extremely hard to gift wrap!"
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« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2021, 06:34:30 PM »


I have been listening to the Deja Vu boxed set again to and once again, as with every time since I first heard it in about 1974, when Croz sings, "Must be because I had the flu for Christmas," I always think, "What a terrible present and extremely hard to gift wrap!"


Arf!  Grin
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« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2021, 10:35:44 AM »

What do people think of the RSD release - the alternate Deja Vu vinyl?  I presume it's made up of bits from the rest of the 50th anniversary box set.  Is that right?  Anyway, does it work on vinyl - sound good?
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« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2021, 10:57:58 AM »


What do people think of the RSD release - the alternate Deja Vu vinyl?  I presume it's made up of bits from the rest of the 50th anniversary box set.  Is that right?  Anyway, does it work on vinyl - sound good?
It certainly works for me!
The sound is excellent and I actually prefer a number of the tracks to those on the original, mainly due to some excellent electric guitar work. Carry On is one example, but for me the highlight is the 10 minute version of Almost Cut My Hair which is far superior to the version on the original album.
The only problem I have with album is the lack of a version of Country Girl which somewhat ruins the continuity for me, but I guess there is no alternative they could have used.
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« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2021, 11:12:53 AM »



One thing that jumped out at me when I read Nash's Wild Tales book was on the day Crosby was released from prison Nash and their manager "bought him the biggest steak he'd seen in a year." Somewhat different to the likes of McCartney and Harrison and their vegetarian lifestyles.

Also on the one hand he's played a lot of benefit gigs for environmental causes but his own carbon footprint must be pretty bad as he has various properties including a house in Hawaii and must have flown countless thousands of miles every year.

A case of "do as I say, not as I do."  Roll Eyes


Eating steaks, and going on aeroplanes.  I guess that makes me a colossal bastard as well then.  Are we done now, picking holes in his moral fibre?

 Roll Eyes

Jules


How do you know if someone is a vegan?  ....................................... They tell you.  Grin
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« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2021, 11:16:59 AM »



What do people think of the RSD release - the alternate Deja Vu vinyl?  I presume it's made up of bits from the rest of the 50th anniversary box set.  Is that right?  Anyway, does it work on vinyl - sound good?
It certainly works for me!
The sound is excellent and I actually prefer a number of the tracks to those on the original, mainly due to some excellent electric guitar work. Carry On is one example, but for me the highlight is the 10 minute version of Almost Cut My Hair which is far superior to the version on the original album.
The only problem I have with album is the lack of a version of Country Girl which somewhat ruins the continuity for me, but I guess there is no alternative they could have used.



Mr Neil says no!  Thanks, Bill...appreciated.  I'm quite tempted.
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« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2021, 01:51:55 PM »




What do people think of the RSD release - the alternate Deja Vu vinyl?  I presume it's made up of bits from the rest of the 50th anniversary box set.  Is that right?  Anyway, does it work on vinyl - sound good?
It certainly works for me!
The sound is excellent and I actually prefer a number of the tracks to those on the original, mainly due to some excellent electric guitar work. Carry On is one example, but for me the highlight is the 10 minute version of Almost Cut My Hair which is far superior to the version on the original album.
The only problem I have with album is the lack of a version of Country Girl which somewhat ruins the continuity for me, but I guess there is no alternative they could have used.



Mr Neil says no!  Thanks, Bill...appreciated.  I'm quite tempted.


It is identical to disc 4 of the box.
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« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2021, 02:05:59 PM »





What do people think of the RSD release - the alternate Deja Vu vinyl?  I presume it's made up of bits from the rest of the 50th anniversary box set.  Is that right?  Anyway, does it work on vinyl - sound good?
It certainly works for me!
The sound is excellent and I actually prefer a number of the tracks to those on the original, mainly due to some excellent electric guitar work. Carry On is one example, but for me the highlight is the 10 minute version of Almost Cut My Hair which is far superior to the version on the original album.
The only problem I have with album is the lack of a version of Country Girl which somewhat ruins the continuity for me, but I guess there is no alternative they could have used.



Mr Neil says no!  Thanks, Bill...appreciated.  I'm quite tempted.


It is identical to disc 4 of the box.



Ta.  I guess the substantive question is what does it sound like on vinyl (quality of the pressing/mastering etc).
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« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2021, 07:57:03 AM »

Croz interview on the Grauniad website.  His interviews always make me wince.  "I'm still speaking to Stephen so he was definitely the most talented one etc etc etc"

Love the art and not the artist and all that...

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/sep/02/david-crosby-on-love-music-and-rancour-neil-young-is-probably-the-most-selfish-person-i-know
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