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Author Topic: What to do with CDs  (Read 2206 times)
bassline (Mike)
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« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2018, 12:53:00 PM »

Any jewel cases that need a home, will always be welcome in Mikey's CD Refuge For Lost Digital Storage Systems.
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« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2018, 01:58:35 PM »

Quote
Quote from: Jules Gray on Yesterday at 10:39:20 AM

Quote from: Chris on Yesterday at 09:18:56 AM

Just because you've moved your music collection online, you've paid for this music by buying the CDs.

If you sell the CDs, you are selling the music you bought, not the CDs & jewelcases, which unrecorded, would be worth what you are being offered frankly. So delete the music & sell it on, or be happy with the few pence that the CD/jewelcases are worth unrecorded. Otherwise the artists might not be happy as you are keeping their music for free.


Jeez, I'd never have thought about it like that!

Jules


I guess it is like scanning a book and then selling the original isn't it?


That's always the way I have thought of it.  If I sell a CD, I delete it from my iTunes too, as I don't own it any longer.
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« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2018, 02:44:35 PM »


That's always the way I have thought of it.  If I sell a CD, I delete it from my iTunes too, as I don't own it any longer.


Gosh, you people are thorough.

Jules
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« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2018, 05:14:47 PM »



That's always the way I have thought of it.  If I sell a CD, I delete it from my iTunes too, as I don't own it any longer.


Gosh, you people are thorough.

Jules


Can anyone find me a person who's been prosecuted for not doing the above?  You've paid the rights holder for use - selling it doesn't alter that reality one jot?  I'm sorry but to me it's almost like being desperate to appear ostentatiously 'just' about something without actually thinking about it....
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« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2018, 05:32:46 PM »


Quote
Quote from: Jules Gray on Yesterday at 10:39:20 AM

Quote from: Chris on Yesterday at 09:18:56 AM

Just because you've moved your music collection online, you've paid for this music by buying the CDs.

If you sell the CDs, you are selling the music you bought, not the CDs & jewelcases, which unrecorded, would be worth what you are being offered frankly. So delete the music & sell it on, or be happy with the few pence that the CD/jewelcases are worth unrecorded. Otherwise the artists might not be happy as you are keeping their music for free.


Jeez, I'd never have thought about it like that!

Jules


I guess it is like scanning a book and then selling the original isn't it?


That's always the way I have thought of it.  If I sell a CD, I delete it from my iTunes too, as I don't own it any longer.
Really? I wouldn't even consider doing that!
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davidmjs
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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2018, 05:36:04 PM »


Really? I wouldn't even consider doing that!


And nor, I would humbly suggest, should you....
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« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2018, 05:37:08 PM »




That's always the way I have thought of it.  If I sell a CD, I delete it from my iTunes too, as I don't own it any longer.


Gosh, you people are thorough.

Jules


Can anyone find me a person who's been prosecuted for not doing the above?  You've paid the rights holder for use - selling it doesn't alter that reality one jot?  I'm sorry but to me it's almost like being desperate to appear ostentatiously 'just' about something without actually thinking about it....


It is slightly different than what you say, but a few years ago here there was a big backlash against compliance people from the publishing rights group ASCAP and BMI actually going out to places of business where music is played-say a bar or a store. It has become common of course to get some speakers and hook up a phone or mp3 player, or even the laptop itself, and playing background music in a business. Apparently the thought was that even IF you owned the music you were playing you were not paying an adequate royalty to the music labels. So if you bought a CD, loaded it to Itunes for example, then played that music, it was deemed to be music being played in a public place for free. And they went after small businesses and bars imposing fines on them. Jukeboxes were deemed exempt because the cost of the jukebox presumably included royalty fees. So instead they went after small businesses...knocking on the door of an establishment  out of the blue saying, excuse me ma'am, I understand you play music at your store from your laptop. You owe ASCAP $2000. It was of course ludicrous, because they had all these stipulations-play commercial radio instead, play music you own, but play it at lower volume, etc, etc. The point I am making is that it would be fruitless to go after the individual, but the record labels did attempt some form of retribution in larger contexts.
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bassline (Mike)
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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2018, 06:12:13 PM »

It's a bit of a minefield isn't it ?

There's, or was, a band called Garva, who I saw a few times at Upton Folk Festival, and they played their last gigs there before splitting up. I loved them, and wanted to buy their album 'Sweet Liberty', but they had none. Years later, I contacted one of the members online and bought a copy from him, which was a cdr, but was an 'official' cdr. Stupidly, I didn't make a back up copy, and it's gone bad and no longer plays. If I HAD made a back up copy, everything would have been fine. Or would it ?
As I didn't, if I found somebody that had a working copy, would it be pirating if I asked them to burn me a duplicate ?
I guess I bought the rights to listen to the music on it, or did I only buy the rights to listen to that particular disc ?
As it no longer plays, am I entitled to a replacement ?
Or..or....I dunno.
Yours, confused, West Midlands.
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« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2018, 09:46:42 AM »


 You've paid the rights holder for use - selling it doesn't alter that reality one jot?  


Yep - and the person you sell it on to? Hve they paid the rights holder?


It's a bit of a minefield isn't it ?

There's, or was, a band called Garva, who I saw a few times at Upton Folk Festival, and they played their last gigs there before splitting up. I loved them, and wanted to buy their album 'Sweet Liberty', but they had none. Years later, I contacted one of the members online and bought a copy from him, which was a cdr, but was an 'official' cdr. Stupidly, I didn't make a back up copy, and it's gone bad and no longer plays. If I HAD made a back up copy, everything would have been fine. Or would it ?
As I didn't, if I found somebody that had a working copy, would it be pirating if I asked them to burn me a duplicate ?
I guess I bought the rights to listen to the music on it, or did I only buy the rights to listen to that particular disc ?
As it no longer plays, am I entitled to a replacement ?


You paid a band member for a CDR initially - that's probably better for that band member as they'd get more than they'd be paid via the rights collector...so unles you at some stage get your money back somehhow, you are always a paid-up licencsor of that product - so yes, in my view you would be entitled to obtain a replacement in whatever dformat you could get....it's different to selling your copy on....
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« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2018, 10:26:42 AM »



 You've paid the rights holder for use - selling it doesn't alter that reality one jot?  


Yep - and the person you sell it on to? Hve they paid the rights holder?




And second hand record dealers? And charity shops? And boot fairs? And jumble sales? Etc etc etc...

Have they paid the rights holder? Your argument may be ethically correct in but it is ridiculous, impractical and unenforceable in practice and I doubt that anyone in the music industry is remotely interested in the re-sale of physical product. That is not where their problems lie.

It is the modern equivalent of saying "Home Taping is Killing Music". Everybody laughed whenever they saw that logo on the sleeve.. We all did it anyway and guess what? Music didn't die.
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Jules Gray
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« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2018, 02:27:51 PM »


It is the modern equivalent of saying "Home Taping is Killing Music". Everybody laughed whenever they saw that logo on the sleeve.. We all did it anyway and guess what? Music didn't die.


The music industry pretty much did though, at least the one we all knew....eventually.

Jules
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« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2018, 02:41:19 PM »




 You've paid the rights holder for use - selling it doesn't alter that reality one jot?  


Yep - and the person you sell it on to? Hve they paid the rights holder?




And second hand record dealers? And charity shops? And boot fairs? And jumble sales? Etc etc etc...

Have they paid the rights holder? Your argument may be ethically correct in but it is ridiculous, impractical and unenforceable in practice and I doubt that anyone in the music industry is remotely interested in the re-sale of physical product. That is not where their problems lie.

It is the modern equivalent of saying "Home Taping is Killing Music". Everybody laughed whenever they saw that logo on the sleeve.. We all did it anyway and guess what? Music didn't die.



I'd also argue that the people who rifle through boxes of vinyl and or CDs at record fairs, second hand shops and charity shops have probably bought lots of albums on at least two formats, possibly three or even more.

I love second hand record shops, often times I'd buy something "just because" and it has led me to buying new material from the artist.

The fact that live show prices have increased dramatically and recorded music prices have pretty much remained static tells a story, I think.

edit, another thought has just occurred to me, when someone pays several hundred pounds for a mono Beatles album or whatever, they aren't really paying for the music on it
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« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2018, 02:59:30 PM »

And I'll add another one to what Rory just did- Most new vinyl pressings are coming with a digital download link now. So effectively I'm getting two formats (digital and vinyl) for one price. Lets say I hang on to the digital but now get rid of the physical product and pass it on to a friend, or donate it. So if the band is offering that option, is it not right to assume that they are effectively surrendering the idea of future rights? The original sale was made to me on two formats and as the purchaser, I still retain a copy on my chosen format. What happens to the other one?
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« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2018, 03:01:18 PM »

I don't think anyone is suggesting paying more than once for an album of music....in however many formats, you pay just the once licence.
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GubGub (Al)
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« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2018, 04:06:04 PM »



It is the modern equivalent of saying "Home Taping is Killing Music". Everybody laughed whenever they saw that logo on the sleeve.. We all did it anyway and guess what? Music didn't die.


The music industry pretty much did though, at least the one we all knew....eventually.

Jules


Yes but not because of home taping or re-selling CDs. In fact, through the 80s and early 90s it boomed. It is the digital revolution and a generation who thought music should be free and ascribed no value to it that killed it. And sadly there seems no way back now.
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