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Author Topic: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography  (Read 21304 times)
Jules Gray
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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2018, 02:19:44 PM »


OK....but I'm not going to tell you if they manage to get a recording contract, or have any hits, or create a new musical genre, or do any festivals or anything like that.


And don't tell us of any cast list changes from one season to the next either.

Jules
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2018, 05:02:20 PM »

My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.

Shite packing (a heavy hardback book in a little jiffy bag?  Sigh...) so I've asked for a replacement/refund as the inevitable has happened.

Really peed off as I was wanting to read it on holiday....
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Jules Gray
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2018, 05:13:23 PM »


My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.


I'm up for reading it, but would actively prefer not to have the loathsome toad's autograph.

Jules
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2018, 05:30:12 PM »



My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.


I'm up for reading it, but would actively prefer not to have the loathsome toad's autograph.

Jules


I think that's a bit harsh, despite the obvious and understandable feelings in some (close-by) quarters.  He's written some decent books, even though there's plenty to disagree about with most of them...
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« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2018, 06:43:42 PM »


My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.

Shite packing (a heavy hardback book in a little jiffy bag?  Sigh...) so I've asked for a replacement/refund as the inevitable has happened.

Really peed off as I was wanting to read it on holiday....


To be fair, their customer service was exceptional.  I'm going to read this one on my hols, and then offer up the damaged one as a freebie to someone that couldn't otherwise afford one....
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« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2018, 08:42:21 PM »




My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.


I'm up for reading it, but would actively prefer not to have the loathsome toad's autograph.

Jules


I think that's a bit harsh, despite the obvious and understandable feelings in some (close-by) quarters.  He's written some decent books, even though there's plenty to disagree about with most of them...


Some might argue that having plenty to disagree about means he does not write such decent books....

I only read the Sandy book so have nothing else to base his writing on personally. But add me to the chorus of it being a hatchet job, especially regarding Trevor Lucas.
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Jules Gray
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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2018, 12:08:28 AM »


I think that's a bit harsh, despite the obvious and understandable feelings in some (close-by) quarters.  He's written some decent books, even though there's plenty to disagree about with most of them...


I pretty much always...or at least usually...enjoy the books, but I dislike the man.

Jules
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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2018, 12:21:35 AM »





My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.


I'm up for reading it, but would actively prefer not to have the loathsome toad's autograph.

Jules


I think that's a bit harsh, despite the obvious and understandable feelings in some (close-by) quarters.  He's written some decent books, even though there's plenty to disagree about with most of them...


Some might argue that having plenty to disagree about means he does not write such decent books....

I only read the Sandy book so have nothing else to base his writing on personally. But add me to the chorus of it being a hatchet job, especially regarding Trevor Lucas.
Why are you sure of this? Is there a chance that everything he had to say about Trevor was true?
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2018, 07:18:09 AM »

…my copy arrived yesterday also…in a jiffy bag...ripped and open at one end…slightly damaged goods contained within...
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2018, 07:31:59 AM »

There is an interesting thread here as to whether you can enjoy somebody's art irrespective of their personality or personal life.
I like Wagner ......although I am very aware of his political opinions.
I like the poetry of Philip Larkin but find some of his personal views anathema to me.
The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour .
 I love John Martyn's music but his behaviour towards Beverley was abhorrent........I could go on.
Sandy was one of those singers who just touched me with her voice.........but she was no saint.....'high maintenance' as RT put it and she developed a serious drink problem. Trevor was also no saint, his behaviour towards Sandy could be seen as the catalyst for some of her behaviours so let's not sanctify them or put them on pedestals , let's just enjoy the work they produced.

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Jules Gray
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« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2018, 07:53:07 AM »


let's just enjoy the work they produced.


There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?

Jules
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2018, 08:35:45 AM »



let's just enjoy the work they produced.


There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?

Jules

I think so Jules but that will be an individual's subjective view. We will all have different cut off levels.
I have no interest whatsoever in the proclivities of celebrities. I am however interested in what may motivate and inform someone's art . Eg Sandy's perceived frustration at not finding mainstream success .
It is however, as you say, a thin line.
Do I need to know about Eliza Carthys battles with her weight to bask in her music?
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2018, 08:47:17 AM »



let's just enjoy the work they produced.

There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?
Jules


I agree and different people will have different cut-off points, for different reasons. (BTW I'm declaring this on-topic)
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« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2018, 11:15:02 AM »




let's just enjoy the work they produced.

There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?
Jules


I agree and different people will have different cut-off points, for different reasons. (BTW I'm declaring this on-topic)


Very much so and it tends to be inconsistent, certainly in my case. I am aware that there are artists whose work I refuse to tolerate because of concerns I have about their pesonality, behaviour or politics. On the other hand there are others who I forgive too easily because I could not bear to give up on their creations. A number of records featuring Philip Pickett for example or the films of Woody Allen (though the case against the latter is very much unproven).

I have read several of Mr Heylin's books and have always enjoyed them, including the Sandy book (over a sunny Cropredy weekend when it was first published). I know nothing of him personally so in his case my judgement is not coloured. Neither do I know whether anything he has written is necessarily wrong but, in any case, it did not make me think the less of anyone involved, at least artistically and by now I have forgotten all the rest of it anyway.
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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2018, 11:32:00 AM »

What has Clinton Heylin done to incur such dislike?  Sorry, I just need to catch up.
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Jules Gray
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« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2018, 12:24:42 PM »


What has Clinton Heylin done to incur such dislike?  Sorry, I just need to catch up.


He's brutal in his opinions regarding other writers, declaring himself the only one who has the answers.  He's often similarly brutal in his opinions regarding some of the musicians he writes about, often overlooking a more balanced perspective (cf Trevor Lucas).  His research is often top notch, but he can be real pitbull as a writer and as a human being.

Jules
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« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2018, 01:36:55 PM »

I'm not choosing a side of the fence here, but maybe because his research is top notch, he gets deeper into what it was really like - or at least, how people who were there perceived things to be like - and that fuels his belief that he does a better job than others.

I actually asked him about the Sandy book that same Cropredy - I guess - that Al mentioned. I'd pre-ordered the book when it was first publicised, but it was delayed, and Heylin took over the project from the previous author. The book arrived prior to Croppers, and I took it with me, and had started to read it, but hadn't read enough of it to make a judgement. It turned out that he was there signing copies, so I popped over to ask him why there had been a change of authors. He seemed a little embarrassed, but answered anyway, that the publishers weren't too happy with the original draft, that, yes, the research wasn't detailed enough and the original attempt was a bit..meh. (Not his exact words - it was a while ago,) but he didn't seem egotistical or anything.

When I did finish the book, I didn't get a feeling that he'd done an Albert Goldman-style character assassination job on people who are no longer with us to be able to take legal action.
The Sandy/Trevor relationship was obviously fraught, and such relationships happen. That aspect of people's private lives is exactly that, private, and should remain so, in my opinion. It's not part of the deal...we buy a record we get a record, we don't have a right to know what's going on behind closed doors. If the artist chooses to include their thoughts and feelings in their work, that's their choice, and that's different. I'm sure Sandy wrote about Trevor, and herself, layered as it may be in poetic language.

Famously, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, has various members singing songs about the other members all over the place. There's also Loudon and Martha Wainwright writing songs about each other, sometimes direct responses to other songs. They chose to write those songs and make them public, but I still feel like i'm intruding.

To go back to biographies, even autobiographies, if it gives insight into the art, then OK....if it's just gossip about human failings, then I don't want to know..none of us are perfect and it serves no purpose.

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« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2018, 05:07:51 PM »

Fairport Convention more than any band I am aware of elicit the feeling that we know them, and for some that may be true in fact. This means that it is almost impossible for some to have an opinion that is not influenced by this perceived personal relationship. It is almost as if the bias outweighs the truth.

Many take it as a personal insult to dislike a particular lineup/song rather than what it is which is an expression of preference. Over the years I have come to understand that they have produced music I have loved and music I can easily discard in all incarnations and that is just fine with me. The times I have met them they have been charming, and grumpy and annoying as well as great fun.

I will be interested in the Heylin book, the Humphries and the Fairport by Fairport books were unsatisfactory in some way, either too reverential or cursory sometimes in the same book. Of course it may just be true that these are just a bunch of people who mainly like each other have had the usual fallings out and and arguments and getting back togethers. What I am interested in is the creative process and the music not the bickering of drunken/stoned people.

Luckily I have not had to face where the cut-off point is with an artist around their behaviorI like, although Swarb once pissed me off enough I swore never to go see him again, this lasted about until the next time he came around as I always enjoyed his playing if not him.

Neil
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« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2018, 05:28:17 PM »


There is an interesting thread here as to whether you can enjoy somebody's art irrespective of their personality or personal life.
I like Wagner ......although I am very aware of his political opinions.
I like the poetry of Philip Larkin but find some of his personal views anathema to me.
The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour .
 I love John Martyn's music but his behaviour towards Beverley was abhorrent........I could go on.
Sandy was one of those singers who just touched me with her voice.........but she was no saint.....'high maintenance' as RT put it and she developed a serious drink problem. Trevor was also no saint, his behaviour towards Sandy could be seen as the catalyst for some of her behaviours so let's not sanctify them or put them on pedestals , let's just enjoy the work they produced.




Nicely put, thanks.

I’m sure my cut off points differ from others, but that’s ok. What’s right for me is not necessarily right for others, and that’s fine. Happy to respect others’positions even if I don’t agree with them.
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« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2018, 08:41:23 PM »




let's just enjoy the work they produced.

There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?
Jules


I agree and different people will have different cut-off points, for different reasons. (BTW I'm declaring this on-topic)


True, but I wonder how many people still listen to Lost Prophets? I didn't have much of their music, but what I did left my iPod fairly sharpish, I couldn't face it.

Mostly, I'm happy to just listen to the music and am not that concerned with the details of the artistes lives (and The Fall have just turned up on my iPod, which illustrates the point I suppose).

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