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Author Topic: Grateful Dead - where next?  (Read 932160 times)
davidmjs
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« Reply #820 on: May 07, 2013, 06:49:27 PM »



Good work, Jules.  I'll collect it from the Sorting Office for you!  

I dunno...new Rickenbackers and expensive Dead box sets...they obviously pay Library staff better in Gloucestershire than they do in Lancs.  Good work if you can get it.  The CV is in the post.


Having a doctor for a partner helps a little, David.

And it was a secondhand Rickenbacker.   Wink

Jules


In best Please fix it for me voice (is it still legal to say that?) "I'll have a job and a doctor as a partner please, Jules."
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« Reply #821 on: May 10, 2013, 09:20:42 AM »

I feel like a neophyte on this thread, but all the same, I just bought Blues for Allah (rem CD) and really enjoyed listening to it last night, for the 1st time. I liked it so much i played it again. In the same vein as Wake of the Flood, but more jazzy. My cut off point for the Dead is around '74, and I haven't much time for Anthem of the Sun and anything else before Workingman's Dead either, so it's a small but much loved window, for me. The exception is Go to Heaven, which i like in spite of myself, or itself. Some nice songs on there; 'Althea', 'Lost Sailor'.
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« Reply #822 on: May 10, 2013, 09:56:18 AM »


I just bought Blues for Allah (rem CD) and really enjoyed listening to it last night, for the 1st time. I liked it so much i played it again. In the same vein as Wake of the Flood, but more jazzy. My cut off point for the Dead is around '74


Blues For Allah is much more jazzy than Wake Of The Flood.  In fact, much too jazzy for me.  Have you tried From The Mars Hotel yet?  There's some decent stuff on there.

Also, Terrapin Station worth getting if only for the title track and Lost Prophet.

Jules
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« Reply #823 on: May 10, 2013, 03:23:08 PM »



I just bought Blues for Allah (rem CD) and really enjoyed listening to it last night, for the 1st time. I liked it so much i played it again. In the same vein as Wake of the Flood, but more jazzy. My cut off point for the Dead is around '74


Blues For Allah is much more jazzy than Wake Of The Flood.  In fact, much too jazzy for me.  Have you tried From The Mars Hotel yet?  There's some decent stuff on there.

Also, Terrapin Station worth getting if only for the title track and Lost Prophet.

Jules


Yes, I've had Mars Hotel for some years. It's nice-(especially 'Unbroken Chain', and 'China Doll')  and probably the nearest the Dead got to mainstream. The production helps-  very clear and smooth.
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tullist/raymond
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« Reply #824 on: May 10, 2013, 05:38:36 PM »

I kind of have to remind myself what is on those records, won't say they don't get listened to, but there is a whole lotta music, and god knows a whole lotta grateful dead, and though this or that may be of appeal to this or that individual who would not classify themselves as a 24/7 to the bone Deadhead, nevertheless any of their studio records would not be where one finds the Grateful Dead. Did not say none of it is good, but it is the Dead force fit into a bite sized world. They are out of their element.
Agree that Go To Heaven is hands down their most incorrectly maligned work, I believe alot of it had to do with the year it came out, one of several nadirs in popular music was 1980, I think that was the province of the oh so legendary Depeche Mode, bloody rubbish, first class, any connection to heart or the blues completely severed. Coupled with a less than appealing album cover, and a radio track that did bear fruit in live performance, Alabama Getaway, but will not be confused with Uncle John's Band, who's appeal to say, a fan of Crosby Stills and Nash I could understand.
Use of the word jazz, highly apropos within the Grateful Dead. But speaking strictly to their improvisational context, by which Wake of the Flood has every bit as much of that influence as Blues for Allah, with Eyes of the World or Weather Report Suite taking up a signifigant slice of that heartless 40 minutes the Grateful Dead is supposed to squeeze themselves into.
Anthem of the Sun remains my favorite of their standard releases, but those were 2 fine outings, Wake of the Flood and Blues for Allah. But I can totally see how someone can have a lukewarm response to the Grateful Dead via scant exposure only to their studio work, outstanding though alot of it actually is. They are the ultimate real time band, cannot be captured under glass.  
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« Reply #825 on: May 11, 2013, 09:47:27 AM »


Use of the word jazz, highly apropos within the Grateful Dead. But speaking strictly to their improvisational context, by which Wake of the Flood has every bit as much of that influence as Blues for Allah, with Eyes of the World or Weather Report Suite taking up a signifigant slice of that heartless 40 minutes the Grateful Dead is supposed to squeeze themselves into.


I guess so, though the difference is that the songs on Wake Of The Flood have stronger tunes.  The stuff on Blues For Allah is more difficult listening to my ears.

Quote
They are the ultimate real time band, cannot be captured under glass.


Nicely put!

Jules
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« Reply #826 on: May 11, 2013, 03:33:50 PM »

Yeah Jules, from that perspective you may well be correct. Although if I remember right Franklin's Tower is on Blues For Allah, which fairly regularly achieved prayer like status in performance. Incredible human celebration of spirit at say, Frost Amphitheater on a sunny California day. O man.
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« Reply #827 on: May 11, 2013, 03:48:27 PM »


Yeah Jules, from that perspective you may well be correct. Although if I remember right Franklin's Tower is on Blues For Allah, which fairly regularly achieved prayer like status in performance.


Yup.  Easily the best toon on the record.

Jules
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« Reply #828 on: May 12, 2013, 07:19:25 PM »



Anthem of the Sun remains my favorite of their standard releases,


Live/Dead and then Anthem for me I think Raymond.   (I think that way this week anyway!)  
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« Reply #829 on: May 12, 2013, 09:21:00 PM »

Ha! No fair picking live releases. Yeah I know little slabs, i think Feb or Mar 68 show up on Anthem. Of the sort of standard releases, prior to the net, Dicks Picks, etc, I too would go with Live Dead or Reckoning. Not so much because they are precisely "better", but you get twice as much.  
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« Reply #830 on: May 13, 2013, 07:15:17 AM »


I too would go with Live Dead or Reckoning. Not so much because they are precisely "better", but you get twice as much.  


If size is everything then surely Europe '72 wins hands down as the mother of all original live Dead albums.  (And yeah I know they cheated with the vocals.)

Jules
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« Reply #831 on: May 13, 2013, 09:37:54 AM »



I too would go with Live Dead or Reckoning. Not so much because they are precisely "better", but you get twice as much.  


If size is everything then surely Europe '72 wins hands down as the mother of all original live Dead albums.  (And yeah I know they cheated with the vocals.)

Jules


I'd go with this, with the same caveat. I also really like Europe '72 Vol 2, and Steppin out-UK '72. I'm never gonna get that gigantic box of the tour though-  too much of a good thing.
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« Reply #832 on: May 13, 2013, 03:39:21 PM »



I too would go with Live Dead or Reckoning. Not so much because they are precisely "better", but you get twice as much.  


If size is everything then surely Europe '72 wins hands down as the mother of all original live Dead albums.  (And yeah I know they cheated with the vocals.)

Jules
Yeah but there is nothing on Europe 72 the equivalent of the primal beast Dead as evidenced by the likes of the 11 and of course their ultimate recording, right down to sounding like the Avalon Ballroom itself, of Dark Star. Remarkable live recording considering how long ago it was. While I of course love Europe 72, even in its original form, the idea of reworking vocals is so counter Dead, that I believe it came on heavy advice not their own, at a time when they probably still knew signifigant debt. And it did sell well, the Ice Cream Kid on the cover one of my favorite icons, and the version of Jack Straw is one of their very best acheivements put to wax.  
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« Reply #833 on: May 13, 2013, 03:45:47 PM »

Ye know I nearly forgot their last official live release while they were still around, forget the name, the one dedicated to Brent under his family alias of Cliff Hanger. Takes a back seat to none of their more famous releases, beautifully recorded, I believe all at the ultimate Dead venue, Greek Theater Berkeley, in 89. Brilliant live record.
I know some elements of Dead land are quick to mark this or that year as the last year they mattered, but those perspectives are in part or full...incorrect.
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« Reply #834 on: May 13, 2013, 03:49:34 PM »


Yeah but there is nothing on Europe 72 the equivalent of the primal beast Dead as evidenced by the likes of the 11 and of course their ultimate recording, right down to sounding like the Avalon Ballroom itself, of Dark Star.


Not enough choons on Live/Dead for me.  I'll take Europe '72 and Skullf*ck any day.

Jules
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« Reply #835 on: May 13, 2013, 03:55:31 PM »


Ye know I nearly forgot their last official live release while they were still around, forget the name, the one dedicated to Brent under his family alias of Cliff Hanger. Takes a back seat to none of their more famous releases, beautifully recorded, I believe all at the ultimate Dead venue, Greek Theater Berkeley, in 89. Brilliant live record.
I know some elements of Dead land are quick to mark this or that year as the last year they mattered, but those perspectives are in part or full...incorrect.


Would that be "Without a Net"? Nice, especially the "Eyes" with Bransford Marsalis.  Smiley

Regarding "Europe '72", while the big box is deeply wonderful, the original triple LP + the 2 CD "Vol 2" pretty much covers all the bases in my humble.

Very much looking forward to the upcoming "May '77" set.
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« Reply #836 on: May 13, 2013, 04:37:41 PM »

For sure Ian. Do not recall if Branford played with them at the Greek that year, though he did sit in with them on several occasions to come after that Eyes and the show on the East Coast where he stepped in like he had always been there....while knowing jack of their repertoire. My single favorite of the many wonderful guests the Dead had, and a feather in the cap of the jazz world that one could step into that long running conversation like he was supposed to be there. I do recall that Branford said after the first show with them he went out and bought the entire catalogue, he was COMPLETELY blown away, saying basically that these mf's can play jack.
Agreed Jules on Europe 72 to be the one to turn to for the sheer strength of the songs, because on top of that 30 year improv conversation that I suspect took up about 80 per cent of their output, including within those very songs, they wrote a boatload of awesome stand alone songs, regardless of the extrapolations. As is said, the Grateful Dead never played the same song twice.
China Rider too on Without a Net I would mark as the superior of the one on Europe 72. Nothing short of a psychedelic prayer within the Greek Theater with the smell of that eucalyptus and patchouli and weed of course, the view of Berkeley clock tower and further into the San Francisco bay, some of the most fun days of my life.
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« Reply #837 on: May 13, 2013, 06:27:07 PM »


Ha! No fair picking live releases. Yeah I know little slabs, i think Feb or Mar 68 show up on Anthem. Of the sort of standard releases, prior to the net, Dicks Picks, etc, I too would go with Live Dead or Reckoning. Not so much because they are precisely "better", but you get twice as much.  


 Wink I'd never heard Dark Star previously to that being released. It changed my view of guitar music completely and forever.
Yes, Anthem hinted at it with the live segments, but to hear Dark Star with all the instruments so clearly defined...well that changed it all for me.
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« Reply #838 on: May 13, 2013, 11:32:55 PM »

well.....I've just read through this entire thread for the third time in a couple of years,knowing I would eventually take the plunge.
My Dead "collection" has up to now consisted of Excerpt from Dark Star on the Zabriskie Point s/t and Ripple from the Mask s/t (Cher not Jim Carrey),along with Live/Dead all on vinyl.I'm very much of the jamming school of thought,and was trying to avoid getting into a whole new,massive catalouge of stuff,considering that my house is creaking with musical items as it is.
Although the YouTube link to Terrapin Station is no longer avaiable,I've located the second half of that show on a website and I'm hooked.
Scarlet Begonias >
Fire on the Mountain >
Good Lovin'
Ramble on Rose
Samson and Delilah
Terrapin Station
Morning Dew
Encore
Johnny B. Goode

I've also ordered second hand copies of Working Man's Dead,American Beauty,Europe 72,Terrapin Station and Oxymoron.(Not wishing to restart the great Coaxial debate again,of course).

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« Reply #839 on: May 14, 2013, 07:19:27 AM »


You got me you barstewards..
"He's one of us now...Mwahahahaha!!!"


I'm only going to start feeling guilty when you start collecting Dick's Picks, Road Trips and Dave's Picks.   Grin

Jules
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