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Author Topic: Grateful Dead - where next?  (Read 943445 times)
sliprigilio (Al)
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« Reply #120 on: March 08, 2010, 10:48:03 PM »

27?  Spooky.... we all know about that little rock n roll myth don't we...

Slippy
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« Reply #121 on: March 08, 2010, 11:41:23 PM »

Might be seen as a tad morbid by some, o well, but I always thought the inscription on Pig's burial stone, which the old zine The Golden Road showed a picture of years ago, was pretty cool.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=1724&PIpi=77034
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« Reply #122 on: March 09, 2010, 09:37:26 AM »


Might be seen as a tad morbid by some, o well, but I always thought the inscription on Pig's burial stone, which the old zine The Golden Road showed a picture of years ago, was pretty cool.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=1724&PIpi=77034


I think they did a perfect job with the wording of that.  Not sure about the design of the stone, but I do like the words.

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« Reply #123 on: March 09, 2010, 09:39:45 AM »


Got to rip open a Pigpen Lovelight in remembrance methinks...


Does that mean playing a CD with Lovelight on it, or something more bizarre?

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davidmjs
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« Reply #124 on: March 09, 2010, 09:45:26 AM »



Got to rip open a Pigpen Lovelight in remembrance methinks...


Does that mean playing a CD with Lovelight on it, or something more bizarre?

Jules


You have got a suspicious mind, Sir!  I think in truth, you know the answer to the question, don't you....
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« Reply #125 on: March 09, 2010, 09:48:55 AM »


You have got a suspicious mind, Sir!  I think in truth, you know the answer to the question, don't you....


You dawwwwwwwg!!!   Roll Eyes

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« Reply #126 on: March 09, 2010, 12:11:54 PM »

I just came across this one on Amazon:-

Grateful Dead Download Series Vol. 3: The Palestra, Rochester, NY, 10/26/71

I just had a preview listen and it's goooooood!!

I may have to get over my fear of downloading after all.

Jules
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« Reply #127 on: March 10, 2010, 08:13:06 AM »

This was on another music forum...nice little collection of tributes to Pigpen...


A selection of Pigpen videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aX1Z_pHBQ (Hard to Handle 7-3-70)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa9kWiiuV_s (Easy Wind 7-1-70)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V752p6IMWjw (Hurts Me Too 4-17-72)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8B_YY327Pk (Next Time You See Me
4-17-72)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIwhr_S4gAc (Chinatown Shuffle 4-17-72)

Phil Lesh:
"He cultivated a biker image, but he was more the Marlon Brando Wild Ones
sensitive, brooding type. But funkier, way funkier - he had a leather shirt
that I saw him wear every day I knew him. Never was Pigpen more at home than
with a bottle of wine and a guitar, at home or at some party, improvising
epic blues rant lyrics, playing Lightnin' Hopkins songs, and doing Lord
Buckley routines. For him, joining the Mother McCree's jug band with Bob and
Jerry was just a small step away from what he did anyway. Garcia told me it
was Pigpen's idea to turn Mother McCree's into an electric blues band. When
the band turned into the Grateful Dead, Pig became our keel, our roots, our
fundamental tone. Pig was the perfect front man for the Dead: intense,
commanding, comforting; but I don't think he enjoyed doing that quite as
much as sitting on a couch with a guitar and a jug."

Jerry Garcia:
"Pigpen was the only guy in the band who had any talent when we were
starting out. He was genuinely talented. He also had no discipline, but he
had reams of talent. And he had that magical thing of being able to make
stuff up as he went along. He also had great stage presence. The ironic
thing was that he hated it - it really meant nothing to him; it wasn't what
he liked. We had to browbeat him into being a performer. His best
performances were one-on-one, sitting in a room with an acoustic guitar.
That's where he was really at home and at his best.
"Out in front of the crowd he could work the band, and he'd really get the
audience going. He always had more nerve than I could believe.
He'd get the audience on his side, and he'd pick somebody out (like a
heckler) and get on them... He was the guy who really sold the band, not me
or Weir. Pigpen is what made the band work."

Mickey Hart:
"Pigpen was the musician in the Grateful Dead. When I first met the Grateful
Dead, it was Pigpen and the boys. It was a blues band...
Pigpen was a kind man. He looked so hard, but he was a kind, soft man.
That's why he had to look so tough, because he was so kind, he would get
stepped on... If there was one black chick in the audience, he'd always go
home with her. Somehow he'd always have her up by his organ...by the end of
the evening, she'd be up sitting on his stool.
He just loved black women... He was the blues: he lived it, and he believed
it, and he got caught in that web and he couldn't break out.
And it killed him... He was just living the blues life: singing' the blues
and drinkin' whiskey. That's what all blues guys did."

Tom Constanten:
"Pigpen's father was a blues DJ who went by the name 'Cool Breeze'.
Pigpen had an encyclopedic knowledge of all the blues artists, and Pigpen
was a remarkable blues singer. The world never got to see the full measure
of Pigpen. He could do so many things - he was so deep, so broad. I used to
room with him on the road and I shared a house with him in Novato. I mean
you'd look at him and see this Hell's Angel sort of character who sings this
narrow band of music, and he was really into so many more things. Pigpen had
a different inner and outer image. While his outer image was kind of like
Pirate Pete who would shoot his gun at your feet to make you dance, yet he
was also the guy who brought a portable chess game along on the road because
he liked to play."

Ned Lagin:
"I was very surprised at who Pigpen actually turned out to be, given what I
had seen of him... I thought Pigpen would probably be on the opposite side
of the planet from me, blues tough, but he turned out to be a very sweet
person. To him, I was one of those whiz-kid rocket scientist genius kids
that he always wanted to meet, but was on a different school bus going to a
different place... But we could sit together and play piano together and
hang out together. I think there was a great sensitivity in Pigpen that was
the opposite of his down & dirty Lovelight personality."

Pigpen:
"Can't think what to write, but there's an ant hobbling around on this
table. Absquatulate with the funds, will ya? Had any prune-tang lately?
There's a broken helicopter outside the door, looking bum- tripped after
having fallen down on Happy Land St. and belonging to the people who work in
the hangar next door. Poot, still at a loss. I like fun and making people
happy. Sue just loves my blue bow."

Bob Seidemann:
"It was obvious to everybody Pigpen was dying. I photographed him a few days
before he died and he was so weak he had to be helped from the front door of
his place to the car. I wanted to do one more picture of Pig with the Dead,
so I picked him up and we drove out to Bolinas where they were rehearsing. I
said, 'Look, I've got Pig here.
Let's go outside and do a picture.' And everybody just said, 'Uh, no, Bob.
Thumbs down.' So I put Pig back in the car and on the way back he said,
'Seidemann, will you take my picture?'... It was a sad moment when those
cats wouldn't do it, and I had to drag Pig back to his apartment."

Here's one of Pigpen's last songs, called No Tomorrow. (Sorry about the poor
quality.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2R03IDGo3E

And here's Robert Petersen's poem for Pigpen, written in 1973:

& pigpen died

my eyes tequila-tortured
4 days mourning
lost another fragment
of my own self
knowing
the same brutal
night-sweats & hungers
he knew
the same cold fist
that knocked him down
now clutching furiously
at my gut

shut my eyes
& see him standing
spread-legged
on the stage of the world
the boys prodding him
egging him on
he telling all he ever knew
or cared to know

mike hand cocked like
a boxer's
head throwed back
stale whiskey blues
many-peopled destinations
neon rainy streets
& wilderness of airports
thousands maybe millions
loved him
were fired instantly
into forty-five minutes of
midnight hour
but when he died
he was thin, sick, scared
and alone

like i said to laird
i just hope he didn't hurt
too much
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« Reply #128 on: March 10, 2010, 09:20:16 AM »


Phil Lesh:
"he had a leather shirt that I saw him wear every day I knew him."


Jeez - that shirt must have RONKED!!!   Shocked

Jules
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tullist/raymond
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« Reply #129 on: March 10, 2010, 11:51:07 PM »

You know I loved that David. I recall Mickey relating a different story of their first east coast tour and Mickey's grandma meeting the band and her, shock I guess that these crazy kids she had been reading about in San Francisco were in part her grandson and his buddies, the first of which she met was Pig who I guess moreso than saying hello to her kind of grunted. Then Mickey said "She loved Pigpen."
I think the garment Phil is referring to was more of a vest than a shirt.

"Been chippin them rocks from dawn til doom while my rider hide my bottle in the other room."
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« Reply #130 on: March 11, 2010, 09:29:00 AM »


I think the garment Phil is referring to was more of a vest than a shirt.


Ah, your 'vest' = our 'waistcoat' (our 'vest' = your "undershirt").  So that means it wasn't directly akin to skin.  That's a good thing!

Jules
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« Reply #131 on: March 14, 2010, 12:25:46 AM »

well i went back and listened to aoxomoxoa to see if i had missed out on something in putting it by the wayside for many years. and at least one third of it is drivel that i know the band, 2 of whom i know, and all of whom i have met at least once, would like to take back. in fact in one of my 2 conversations with daddy dead himself, jerry, we were talking about his being marked as a deity by some in the ranks, particularly the spinners, will never forget him telling me that if they think that they should talk to his kids. i did not need to be reminded of what is or what is not praiseworthy, i think my gd credentials just might rival anyone on this board, but thanks for thinking of me when u brought out your whipping stick, how thoughtful and indeed grateful of u. yeah, u know i kind of know what the ace points of the album are, all of which are so much more better evidenced in live performance. i think this was terrrr he tried to take me to the woodshed in a game of gd one upsmanship. or david mjs who apparently holds the studio works of terrapin and shakedown close to his heart. i am ever so happy for u. but they are case study one in why the gd does not work under glass. but do tell. that u have your own ears and brain is indeed a gladsome thing, but always show respect to anyone else's opinion, regardless of pedigree.
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« Reply #132 on: March 14, 2010, 12:35:46 AM »


well i went back and listened to aoxomoxoa to see if i had missed out on something in putting it by the wayside for many years. and at least one third of it is drivel that i know the band, 2 of whom i know, and all of whom i have met at least once, would like to take back. in fact in one of my 2 conversations with daddy dead himself, jerry, we were talking about his being marked as a deity by some in the ranks, particularly the spinners, will never forget him telling me that if they think that they should talk to his kids. i did not need to be reminded of what is or what is not praiseworthy, i think my gd credentials just might rival anyone on this board, but thanks for thinking of me when u brought out your whipping stick, how thoughtful and indeed grateful of u. yeah, u know i kind of know what the ace points of the album are, all of which are so much more better evidenced in live performance. i think this was terrrr he tried to take me to the woodshed in a game of gd one upsmanship. or david mjs who apparently holds the studio works of terrapin and shakedown close to his heart. i am ever so happy for u. but they are case study one in why the gd does not work under glass. but do tell. that u have your own ears and brain is indeed a gladsome thing, but always show respect to anyone else's opinion, regardless of pedigree.


Hi there my man. I don't think I've even entered this debate. I did ask about which "Dead" album might be a good starting point (I dont own a GD lp/cd/tape but wouldn't mind finding out what turns you guys on to them) , but if that's oneupmanship, I guess I stand accused.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 12:47:20 AM by terrrrrrrr (David) » Logged

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« Reply #133 on: March 14, 2010, 12:52:32 AM »

sorry terrrr, i made the mistake of trusting my usually quite reliable memory and it indeed was a guy named mike cole but in my rage tonite fueled on a couple fronts i did not go back and do my homework, and i issue my sincere apology, here is what i was referring to. and for someone who has been on the bus for quite some time, and is particularly knowledgable of their more wide open aspects, this has been sticking in my craw for some couple weeks, but it was easy to pass by when my anger was not so engaged. again i aint perfect, i really apologize terrrr.

This is depressing... Reading this thread I realise that I must have got it wrong for the last 40, very odd, years... (Bit like discovering that Bob Hunter wrote most of the lyrics for the album that became 'American Beauty' whilst living in Earls Court) but, for my ears Aoxomoxoa is a stone classic, almost definitive, Dead album. I can't be bothered to defend it, one man's meat is another man's poison, but really? To steer somebody away from it, in such unequivocal terms as applied here would appear to be a little irresponsible, to say the least.

Actually, I will defend it a little, if only to redress the balance:

Premise:

Aoxomoxoa is an essential 'stop over' for anybody who is interested in 'getting' the Dead - Discuss

If you don't hear Aoxomoxoa you will miss out on the definitive takes on both 'Cosmic Charlie' (wherein Garcia redefines the use of the bottle neck) and 'Mountains of the Moon' (the most absolute, no quarter given, few minutes of pure psychedelia ever committed to vinyl). Sure, those are the highlights of the album and sure, it would be silly to argue that 'What's become of the baby' stands up without the aid of some very strong psychedelics (I like very strong psychedelics) but it's a psychedelic album for god's sake - 'Either go away or come all the way in' covers that one - and should be judged by that standard.

At the end of the day you are either 'on the bus or off of it' - it really doesn't matter. What matters is that it's there and, if on it, you are in the driving seat. If you 'dip' your toe into the Dead canon you will almost certainly find yourself on a musical adventure that will hold your interest for the rest of your listening life.. Sometimes they will bore, frustrate, puzzle and madden you (no collective of musicians have ever taken so many wrong turns) and sometimes they will, amuse, astound, elevate and enable you (no collective of musicians have ever taken so many right turns)... And yes, they do 'noodle' but oh, such noodles, fit for a king..

'Does god look down on the boys in the bar room
Mainly forsaken but surely not judged
Jacks, Kings & Aces, their faces entwined
Do lord, deliver our kind.

From sin, from whiskey, three strings on the fiddle
Four, for the guitar, a song that I love
Many's the time we've spent picking & singing
In hopes it be pleasing both here and above' - Robert Hunter

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« Reply #134 on: March 14, 2010, 01:08:23 AM »

No problem Raymond. We've all done the old "engage brain before opening mouth" trick. I myself take pride in more than one masterful display of it...

Keep smiling  Cool
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« Reply #135 on: March 14, 2010, 01:18:36 AM »

I think it was my shamefaced self that tulli was getting so preciously petulant about.

Did I dare to challenge his GD credentials?? He is clearly the 'Man' and ought to be deferred to with the clear, but oh so subtle, promise that providing this mandate is adhered to we can go forth with his blessing to enjoy whatever our errant ears delude us as being em? - enjoyable.

He reminded me somewhat of a (pending tullist's ruling) funny little mantra that my Grandmother taught me to recite to myself when confronted with pretentious prissiness in all it's vainglorious guises:

'Do you insinuate that I should tolerate such diabolical insolence from a low down specimen of humanity like yourself? Your insinuations are too obnoxious to be appreciated, your brain is insufficiently developed to make it possible for me to converse with you any longer.. So bu**er off.

(It sounds better than it reads)

Silliness aside, I stand in abject correction and, since seeing the error of my ways, would wish to assure tulli that I have cast out the travesty of recorded nonsense that is Aoxomoxa (I can barely bring myself to utter it's name) from my collection and duly informed all members of my family that anybody daring to whisper it's name in the future will be force fed 'Aqualung' twice a night for a month (note subtle ingratiation) - that should do it.

Further silliness aside tulli old boy, get over yourself, take a deep breath and read your last post.. It is irrelevant whether you spent a week-end cavorting in a tub full of orange juice (although that is doubtful) with the entire GD family - I think you missed the point


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« Reply #136 on: March 14, 2010, 01:21:11 AM »

nothing short of beautiful david, gives me a restoration of balance, probably temporary due to forboding extraneous factors. where i a christian man that is a sentiment the best of that thinking would embrace, as far as that goes its the other parts that give me pause.
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« Reply #137 on: March 14, 2010, 01:25:52 AM »


I think it was my shamefaced self that tulli was getting so preciously petulant about.

Did I dare to challenge his GD credentials?? He is clearly the 'Man' and ought to be deferred to with the clear, but oh so subtle, promise that providing this mandate is adhered to we can go forth with his blessing to enjoy whatever our errant ears delude us as being em? - enjoyable.

He reminded me somewhat of a (pending tullist's ruling) funny little mantra that my Grandmother taught me to recite to myself when confronted with pretentious prissiness in all it's vainglorious guises:

'Do you insinuate that I should tolerate such diabolical insolence from a low down specimen of humanity like yourself? Your insinuations are too obnoxious to be appreciated, your brain is insufficiently developed to make it possible for me to converse with you any longer.. So bu**er off.

(It sounds better than it reads)

Silliness aside, I stand in abject correction and, since seeing the error of my ways, would wish to assure tulli that I have cast out the travesty of recorded nonsense that is Aoxomoxa (I can barely bring myself to utter it's name) from my collection and duly informed all members of my family that anybody daring to whisper it's name in the future will be force fed 'Aqualung' twice a night for a month (note subtle ingratiation) - that should do it.

Further silliness aside tulli old boy, get over yourself, take a deep breath and read your last post.. It is irrelevant whether you spent a week-end cavorting in a tub full of orange juice (although that is doubtful) with the entire GD family - I think you missed the point



the only point i missed was my own assessment of aoxomoxoa and i do not need u to tell me what is or is not worthwhile in the dead canon, that u have your own opinion i could not be happier about, but that u paint it in a fashion as if i were guilty of so horribly misleading people new to this is something u should keep to yourself. watch it with the language btw, bugger summa dis.
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« Reply #138 on: March 14, 2010, 01:30:07 AM »

If that was you accepting an apology I'd hate to see what you come up with when challenged -

sorry tulli

PS: 'watch my language'? silly boy
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« Reply #139 on: March 14, 2010, 01:33:38 AM »

Anyway, I think that that is enough now.

I suggest that you run back to your mummy and I run back to mine and we both try to play a little nicer in the future -
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