TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Music In General => ¡Active! => Topic started by: GubGub (Al) on April 28, 2019, 12:05:27 PM



Title: Vinyl
Post by: GubGub (Al) on April 28, 2019, 12:05:27 PM
I couldn't think where else to put this so as we already have a thread dedicated to cassettes I thought I would start a new one for this.

I am slowly being seduced into buying vinyl again. Setting aside used items that I have picked up, I have also bought new LPs by Savoy, Bob Dylan, ELO, OMD, Abba, Tamikrest, Neil Young and The Claypool Lennon Delirium over the last year and find myself increasingly looking at the vinyl release for new albums rather than the CD. The prices are of course ludicrous and prohibitive for really embracing vinyl as fully as i might like and I do have one other complaint.

What is the deal with splitting relatively short albums over two slabs of vinyl? Yes I get that there is an (ridiculous) audiophile fetish for splitting an album over multiple 45rpm discs. Those are not albums. They are 12 inch singles! But my bigger concern is that something like the new Claypool Lennon Delrium album (which I love) is 48 minutes long and is split over two 33rpm platters. It isn't necessary. Bob Dylan's Blood On The Tracks is slightly longer than that and exists on a single slab of plastic. It sounds perfectly fine but when the More Blood More Tracks album came out, essentially the same tracks were split over two discs. That is 11 songs, making it 3 or less per side with playing times under 15 minutes. We, or perhaps those younger than me who have fully bought in to the vinyl renaissance, are being taken for a ride.


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Brendan on April 28, 2019, 12:23:54 PM
Am I mistaken or did they release all the smiths albums on 10 inch vinyl at some point in the nineties?


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: davidmjs on April 28, 2019, 01:20:08 PM
The general consensus is indeed that prices are prohibitive, but if you use an inflation calculator, you'll find that the prices we used to pay and remember as cheap are actually similar or more expensive than most new vinyl costs today.

As for your specific question, sound quality is the (supposed) answer.  I'm unconvinced, but I've never been an audiophile (hence the cassettes thread)  ;D


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: bassline (Mike) on April 28, 2019, 04:17:46 PM

The general consensus is indeed that prices are prohibitive, but if you use an inflation calculator, you'll find that the prices we used to pay and remember as cheap are actually similar or more expensive than most new vinyl costs today.

As for your specific question, sound quality is the (supposed) answer.  I'm unconvinced, but I've never been an audiophile (hence the cassettes thread)  ;D


Interesting point. If I remember correctly, the VAT increase imposed by Geoffrey Howe in 1979 - 8% to 15% - meant L.P's were £8.00 for a single, and £12.00 for a double album, which equates to £39.76 and £59.64 today. So......when I looked at Dark Side Of The Moon in Asda today, for £18.00, it would have been £3.62 back then.
This brings the question of the average wage into things, but that is most definitely off topic.


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: davidmjs on April 28, 2019, 04:33:52 PM


The general consensus is indeed that prices are prohibitive, but if you use an inflation calculator, you'll find that the prices we used to pay and remember as cheap are actually similar or more expensive than most new vinyl costs today.

As for your specific question, sound quality is the (supposed) answer.  I'm unconvinced, but I've never been an audiophile (hence the cassettes thread)  ;D


Interesting point. If I remember correctly, the VAT increase imposed by Geoffrey Howe in 1979 - 8% to 15% - meant L.P's were £8.00 for a single, and £12.00 for a double album, which equates to £39.76 and £59.64 today. So......when I looked at Dark Side Of The Moon in Asda today, for £18.00, it would have been £3.62 back then.
This brings the question of the average wage into things, but that is most definitely off topic.


Yep, so minutes of the average wage spent working for something is one way of comparing prices.  What it doesn't do is take account of the vast inequality in wages which has been built into the economy in the last 4 decades and which didn't exist before....ie the average is massively distorted by the vast riches of the few.  All of this proves only one thing...it's very hard to compare prices in a then and now way.  But the fact that our perception is so distorted (Beer/Bread/Records were so much cheaper then) is certainly of interest....



Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2019, 04:43:40 PM
Fewer vinyl copies are pressed too, so cost per item would be higher anyway


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Jules Gray on April 28, 2019, 04:45:20 PM
I only ever buy vinyl when certain songs I want aren't available on CD.  And I quite enjoy buying it in those instances.  But in general, I find vinyl stressful.  I worry about scratching it, I worry whether my stylus is set up right.  And I loathe surface noise, scratches, pops, and jumps.  Any warm nostalgic glow is heavily negated by all that.  But still, it does have an undeniable aesthetic appeal.

Jules


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Albie on April 28, 2019, 04:50:15 PM


The general consensus is indeed that prices are prohibitive, but if you use an inflation calculator, you'll find that the prices we used to pay and remember as cheap are actually similar or more expensive than most new vinyl costs today.

As for your specific question, sound quality is the (supposed) answer.  I'm unconvinced, but I've never been an audiophile (hence the cassettes thread)  ;D


Interesting point. If I remember correctly, the VAT increase imposed by Geoffrey Howe in 1979 - 8% to 15% - meant L.P's were £8.00 for a single, and £12.00 for a double album, which equates to £39.76 and £59.64 today. So......when I looked at Dark Side Of The Moon in Asda today, for £18.00, it would have been £3.62 back then.
This brings the question of the average wage into things, but that is most definitely off topic.


That doesn't sound right for 1979. I'd have thought £3.50 to £4.50 was the range for an LP, but then again it was a long time ago and memory fades, but I can't believe I would have paid £12 for London Calling or £8 for Unknown Pleasures, to name a couple I bought back in the dark, dark, days of Thatcher. But perhaps I had more money than I thought.  ::)

Anyhow, I don't understand the love for vinyl, I like CDs much better, although of course they are terribly old fashioned themselves now.



Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: bassline (Mike) on April 28, 2019, 05:07:04 PM



The general consensus is indeed that prices are prohibitive, but if you use an inflation calculator, you'll find that the prices we used to pay and remember as cheap are actually similar or more expensive than most new vinyl costs today.

As for your specific question, sound quality is the (supposed) answer.  I'm unconvinced, but I've never been an audiophile (hence the cassettes thread)  ;D


Interesting point. If I remember correctly, the VAT increase imposed by Geoffrey Howe in 1979 - 8% to 15% - meant L.P's were £8.00 for a single, and £12.00 for a double album, which equates to £39.76 and £59.64 today. So......when I looked at Dark Side Of The Moon in Asda today, for £18.00, it would have been £3.62 back then.
This brings the question of the average wage into things, but that is most definitely off topic.


That doesn't sound right for 1979. I'd have thought £3.50 to £4.50 was the range for an LP, but then again it was a long time ago and memory fades, but I can't believe I would have paid £12 for London Calling or £8 for Unknown Pleasures, to name a couple I bought back in the dark, dark, days of Thatcher. But perhaps I had more money than I thought.  ::)

Anyhow, I don't understand the love for vinyl, I like CDs much better, although of course they are terribly old fashioned themselves now.




Actually - you're right. It was £6 for a single album, and £8 for a double.
(The £12 was from checking the prices of CD's when they came out - bit of a cut and paste cock up there, due to Jim Beam and coke !  ;))


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Col D on April 28, 2019, 05:15:47 PM
I buy very little new vinyl, really only things where there isn't CD equivalent, if there's a CD issue I'll always go for that. Price is one factor but mainly because quality control is so poor - that was the main reason why I moved to CD in the 80s and recent experience would indicate that the problem is even worse now than it was back then. Why is it so difficult to produce a flat piece of vinyl? We used to be able to do that but pretty much every album I've bought in recent years has been either warped or dished to some degree. When it comes to the question of sound quality I keep hearing all about the superior warm analogue sound, but the fact is that the vast majority of new vinyl releases are mastered from digital files anyway and sound exactly the same as the CD, but at two or three times the price.


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Albie on April 28, 2019, 05:17:44 PM




The general consensus is indeed that prices are prohibitive, but if you use an inflation calculator, you'll find that the prices we used to pay and remember as cheap are actually similar or more expensive than most new vinyl costs today.

As for your specific question, sound quality is the (supposed) answer.  I'm unconvinced, but I've never been an audiophile (hence the cassettes thread)  ;D


Interesting point. If I remember correctly, the VAT increase imposed by Geoffrey Howe in 1979 - 8% to 15% - meant L.P's were £8.00 for a single, and £12.00 for a double album, which equates to £39.76 and £59.64 today. So......when I looked at Dark Side Of The Moon in Asda today, for £18.00, it would have been £3.62 back then.
This brings the question of the average wage into things, but that is most definitely off topic.


That doesn't sound right for 1979. I'd have thought £3.50 to £4.50 was the range for an LP, but then again it was a long time ago and memory fades, but I can't believe I would have paid £12 for London Calling or £8 for Unknown Pleasures, to name a couple I bought back in the dark, dark, days of Thatcher. But perhaps I had more money than I thought.  ::)

Anyhow, I don't understand the love for vinyl, I like CDs much better, although of course they are terribly old fashioned themselves now.




Actually - you're right. It was £6 for a single album, and £8 for a double.
(The £12 was from checking the prices of CD's when they came out - bit of a cut and paste cock up there, due to Jim Beam and coke !  ;))


Well, I was right up to a point. £6 still sounds a bit much to my faulty memory, but there was a lot of that there inflation back then. I wonder how much a Jim Beam and coke would have been? I would have been mainly drinking Banks's Mild (nice) or Greenall Whitley bitter (unpleasant) in those days.


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: JohnP69 on April 28, 2019, 05:26:57 PM

Am I mistaken or did they release all the smiths albums on 10 inch vinyl at some point in the nineties?


They did indeed Brendan 1993 to be precise.

I believe 2 of them were doubles.

Probably going for a tidy sum on Discogs now!


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: bassline (Mike) on April 28, 2019, 05:30:25 PM
It was a BIG jump in VAT - almost double. I went into HMV with my mate Derek and was shocked.
Bank's Mild...them was the days.
I remember a jump from about 30p a pint to 50p.
'50p ?? FIFTY PENCE !!!??? Forra point of Bonkses ???? Gerrowtovitt !'


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: GubGub (Al) on April 28, 2019, 06:48:32 PM





The general consensus is indeed that prices are prohibitive, but if you use an inflation calculator, you'll find that the prices we used to pay and remember as cheap are actually similar or more expensive than most new vinyl costs today.

As for your specific question, sound quality is the (supposed) answer.  I'm unconvinced, but I've never been an audiophile (hence the cassettes thread)  ;D


Interesting point. If I remember correctly, the VAT increase imposed by Geoffrey Howe in 1979 - 8% to 15% - meant L.P's were £8.00 for a single, and £12.00 for a double album, which equates to £39.76 and £59.64 today. So......when I looked at Dark Side Of The Moon in Asda today, for £18.00, it would have been £3.62 back then.
This brings the question of the average wage into things, but that is most definitely off topic.


That doesn't sound right for 1979. I'd have thought £3.50 to £4.50 was the range for an LP, but then again it was a long time ago and memory fades, but I can't believe I would have paid £12 for London Calling or £8 for Unknown Pleasures, to name a couple I bought back in the dark, dark, days of Thatcher. But perhaps I had more money than I thought.  ::)

Anyhow, I don't understand the love for vinyl, I like CDs much better, although of course they are terribly old fashioned themselves now.




Actually - you're right. It was £6 for a single album, and £8 for a double.
(The £12 was from checking the prices of CD's when they came out - bit of a cut and paste cock up there, due to Jim Beam and coke !  ;))


Well, I was right up to a point. £6 still sounds a bit much to my faulty memory, but there was a lot of that there inflation back then. I wonder how much a Jim Beam and coke would have been? I would have been mainly drinking Banks's Mild (nice) or Greenall Whitley bitter (unpleasant) in those days.


I agree. I was buying huge amounts of vinyl when I was at college between '83 & '86 and I definitely would not have been paying more than about a fiver for a new LP. I couldn't have afforded to on a student grant. I have just looked at one of the few albums I have that still has a price ticket on it, Loaded by The Velvet Underground. Admittedly that was a back catalogue item but I bought it mid eighties and the price ticket is £2.99.


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: MarkV on April 28, 2019, 06:50:37 PM

It was a BIG jump in VAT - almost double. I went into HMV with my mate Derek and was shocked.
Bank's Mild...them was the days.
I remember a jump from about 30p a pint to 50p.
'50p ?? FIFTY PENCE !!!??? Forra point of Bonkses ???? Gerrowtovitt !'

Probably off topic, but while I will never go back to vinyl, if I could get some Banks Mild I would be happy..(though I suspect my gout would flare up).  


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: GubGub (Al) on April 28, 2019, 07:29:54 PM






The general consensus is indeed that prices are prohibitive, but if you use an inflation calculator, you'll find that the prices we used to pay and remember as cheap are actually similar or more expensive than most new vinyl costs today.

As for your specific question, sound quality is the (supposed) answer.  I'm unconvinced, but I've never been an audiophile (hence the cassettes thread)  ;D


Interesting point. If I remember correctly, the VAT increase imposed by Geoffrey Howe in 1979 - 8% to 15% - meant L.P's were £8.00 for a single, and £12.00 for a double album, which equates to £39.76 and £59.64 today. So......when I looked at Dark Side Of The Moon in Asda today, for £18.00, it would have been £3.62 back then.
This brings the question of the average wage into things, but that is most definitely off topic.


That doesn't sound right for 1979. I'd have thought £3.50 to £4.50 was the range for an LP, but then again it was a long time ago and memory fades, but I can't believe I would have paid £12 for London Calling or £8 for Unknown Pleasures, to name a couple I bought back in the dark, dark, days of Thatcher. But perhaps I had more money than I thought.  ::)

Anyhow, I don't understand the love for vinyl, I like CDs much better, although of course they are terribly old fashioned themselves now.




Actually - you're right. It was £6 for a single album, and £8 for a double.
(The £12 was from checking the prices of CD's when they came out - bit of a cut and paste cock up there, due to Jim Beam and coke !  ;))


Well, I was right up to a point. £6 still sounds a bit much to my faulty memory, but there was a lot of that there inflation back then. I wonder how much a Jim Beam and coke would have been? I would have been mainly drinking Banks's Mild (nice) or Greenall Whitley bitter (unpleasant) in those days.


I agree. I was buying huge amounts of vinyl when I was at college between '83 & '86 and I definitely would not have been paying more than about a fiver for a new LP. I couldn't have afforded to on a student grant. I have just looked at one of the few albums I have that still has a price ticket on it, Loaded by The Velvet Underground. Admittedly that was a back catalogue item but I bought it mid eighties and the price ticket is £2.99.


I've done a bit of detective work and found this picture of a window display in Our Price showing albums by Kajagoogoo (I know!) and Springsteen that date it to 1984. The prices shown are £4.49. That is in line with my memory. Anyone want to take a shot at what the equivalent price is 35 years on?


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: ColinB on April 28, 2019, 07:32:00 PM

I've done a bit of detective work and found this picture of a window display in Our Price showing albums by Kajagoogoo (I know!) and Springsteen that date it to 1984. The prices shown are £4.49. That is in line with my memory. Anyone want to take a shot at what the equivalent price is 35 years on?


Kajagoogoo 49p in Oxfam.  ;D



Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Albie on April 28, 2019, 07:58:56 PM







The general consensus is indeed that prices are prohibitive, but if you use an inflation calculator, you'll find that the prices we used to pay and remember as cheap are actually similar or more expensive than most new vinyl costs today.

As for your specific question, sound quality is the (supposed) answer.  I'm unconvinced, but I've never been an audiophile (hence the cassettes thread)  ;D


Interesting point. If I remember correctly, the VAT increase imposed by Geoffrey Howe in 1979 - 8% to 15% - meant L.P's were £8.00 for a single, and £12.00 for a double album, which equates to £39.76 and £59.64 today. So......when I looked at Dark Side Of The Moon in Asda today, for £18.00, it would have been £3.62 back then.
This brings the question of the average wage into things, but that is most definitely off topic.


That doesn't sound right for 1979. I'd have thought £3.50 to £4.50 was the range for an LP, but then again it was a long time ago and memory fades, but I can't believe I would have paid £12 for London Calling or £8 for Unknown Pleasures, to name a couple I bought back in the dark, dark, days of Thatcher. But perhaps I had more money than I thought.  ::)

Anyhow, I don't understand the love for vinyl, I like CDs much better, although of course they are terribly old fashioned themselves now.




Actually - you're right. It was £6 for a single album, and £8 for a double.
(The £12 was from checking the prices of CD's when they came out - bit of a cut and paste cock up there, due to Jim Beam and coke !  ;))


Well, I was right up to a point. £6 still sounds a bit much to my faulty memory, but there was a lot of that there inflation back then. I wonder how much a Jim Beam and coke would have been? I would have been mainly drinking Banks's Mild (nice) or Greenall Whitley bitter (unpleasant) in those days.


I agree. I was buying huge amounts of vinyl when I was at college between '83 & '86 and I definitely would not have been paying more than about a fiver for a new LP. I couldn't have afforded to on a student grant. I have just looked at one of the few albums I have that still has a price ticket on it, Loaded by The Velvet Underground. Admittedly that was a back catalogue item but I bought it mid eighties and the price ticket is £2.99.


I've done a bit of detective work and found this picture of a window display in Our Price showing albums by Kajagoogoo (I know!) and Springsteen that date it to 1984. The prices shown are £4.49. That is in line with my memory. Anyone want to take a shot at what the equivalent price is 35 years on?



Those prices are more in line with what my memory is trying to tell me. That's a great picture btw.


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: davidmjs on April 28, 2019, 08:47:47 PM



Those prices are more in line with what my memory is trying to tell me. That's a great picture btw.


£14-15 quid ? (approx the same with inflation)...It's almost bang on what a new slightly discounted chart vinyl album costs today.


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: GubGub (Al) on April 28, 2019, 09:11:07 PM




Those prices are more in line with what my memory is trying to tell me. That's a great picture btw.


£14-15 quid ? (approx the same with inflation)...It's almost bang on what a new slightly discounted chart vinyl album costs today.


I'm not finding too much new vinyl at that sort of price. £17 - £25 seems nearer the norm for a single album. I am not buying much chart music admittedly.


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Will S on April 29, 2019, 09:09:09 AM





Those prices are more in line with what my memory is trying to tell me. That's a great picture btw.


£14-15 quid ? (approx the same with inflation)...It's almost bang on what a new slightly discounted chart vinyl album costs today.


I'm not finding too much new vinyl at that sort of price. £17 - £25 seems nearer the norm for a single album. I am not buying much chart music admittedly.


I was at uni just about the same years as you, Gub, and also buying (and selling) lots of LPs - but almost all secondhand ones - thanks Record Collector in Sheffield, and the Collector's Record Centre (I think it was called) in Guildford!


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Bingers (Chris) on May 12, 2019, 10:49:30 AM
All I know is that I was a poor university student in Cardiff in 1979 and never paid more than £2.99 for an album and that was an expensive purchase. Think I paid nearer £1.99 on average but, as others have said, memory fades!


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: davidmjs on May 12, 2019, 11:42:36 AM

All I know is that I was a poor university student in Cardiff in 1979 and never paid more than £2.99 for an album and that was an expensive purchase. Think I paid nearer £1.99 on average but, as others have said, memory fades!


£3 in 1979 is £15 today.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Bingers (Chris) on May 12, 2019, 01:12:19 PM


All I know is that I was a poor university student in Cardiff in 1979 and never paid more than £2.99 for an album and that was an expensive purchase. Think I paid nearer £1.99 on average but, as others have said, memory fades!


£3 in 1979 is £15 today.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator


Looks like I was richer than I felt  :o but it’s all relative


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Albie on May 12, 2019, 02:20:26 PM
In early 1977 from Woolies (ask your Granddad) I bought Raw Power by Iggy and the Stooges for £1.99, on vinyl. That was a "budget" release, cheaper than most of what was around. I am sure of the price because the sticker is still on the front. I'd never heard anything from it, just bought it on a whim because the band had been written about as an influence on the punk bands and thought I would try it - and at that time there wan't much else to buy, I think The Damned were the only Brits who had released an album, The Clash, Rattus and In The City were a few weeks away.

Anyhow, it was an inspired purchase, and I still think it is one of the two or three best "heavy rock" (if that is your chosen definition) albums I have ever heard.



Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Alan2 on May 25, 2019, 03:10:46 PM

I buy very little new vinyl, really only things where there isn't CD equivalent, if there's a CD issue I'll always go for that. Price is one factor but mainly because quality control is so poor - that was the main reason why I moved to CD in the 80s and recent experience would indicate that the problem is even worse now than it was back then. Why is it so difficult to produce a flat piece of vinyl? We used to be able to do that but pretty much every album I've bought in recent years has been either warped or dished to some degree. When it comes to the question of sound quality I keep hearing all about the superior warm analogue sound, but the fact is that the vast majority of new vinyl releases are mastered from digital files anyway and sound exactly the same as the CD, but at two or three times the price.


This is why I'm very selective about buying vinyl now.  Though I like the  medium, and still think at its best it is the best, poor quality control and the presence of some digital technology at some stage in the process are big negating factors. Music on Vinyl do use digital files for some of their releases, but that doesn't  seem to degrade the result, and their pressings are well above average.  (I recently bought Anthems in Eden by Shirley and Dolly Collins on MoV and am delighted with it). And of course companies like Mobile Fidelity and Speakers' Corner boast an all analogue product which comes at a premium price. You makes your choice and you pays your money, or not.  8)


Title: Re: Vinyl
Post by: Bingers (Chris) on June 12, 2019, 03:51:30 PM
I wandered into the local HMV (yes some still exist) in Chelmsford yesterday and was amazed at the amount of vinyl on sale! It was like the old days with racks of vinyl albums outnumbering the racks of CDs. Only difference was the pricing with single albums ranging between £20 and £30 in the main.