TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Artists => Fairport Convention => Topic started by: Dan O. on May 02, 2018, 03:03:49 PM



Title: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Dan O. on May 02, 2018, 03:03:49 PM
Just got wind that Clinton Heylin has produced a Fairport biography. Details and pre-order here :

www.fairportbook.wordpress.com/

I'm always interested to read another take on our heroes, although I'm sceptical about the works of Mr Heylin following his Sandy biography, and his Bob Dylan biogs, which have been reviewed thus :

"Dylan might have been there – but only Heylin knows what actually happened."


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on May 02, 2018, 03:22:17 PM
Heylin is an unpleasant, opinionated asshat.

But he does know how to research.

It could go either way.

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on May 02, 2018, 04:36:51 PM
I'll get it and 'enjoy' reading it, but I expect to be thoroughly p1ssed off throughout.  


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Dan O. on May 02, 2018, 05:06:49 PM
As long as it's not another "Fairport By Fairport" situation. The reviews for that book could politely be described as "mixed".


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Alan2 on May 03, 2018, 11:44:44 AM

I'll get it and 'enjoy' reading it, but I expect to be thoroughly p1ssed off throughout.  


Couldn't you just pass on it ,  David??   8)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Will S on May 03, 2018, 01:08:17 PM
Interesting that both Simon and Iain Matthews have remarked positively about it (and of course he is safe from Swarb's acid tongue now...)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Staffan on May 03, 2018, 01:26:55 PM
I was rather disappointed by ”Fairport by Fairport” - not as much behind the headlines as I’d hoped - my hopes are low that Heylin will present me with anything more than a band update from 2012. But, with Fairport being ” my” band for almost 60 years, I have already ordered and look forward to a cosy reading experience full of already known facts. With a glass of red wine beside me and ”Come All Ye” playing over the speakers, I am sure I will have a splendid time. 8)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on May 03, 2018, 04:29:12 PM

I was rather disappointed by ”Fairport by Fairport” - not as much behind the headlines as I’d hoped - my hopes are low that Heylin will present me with anything more than a band update from 2012. But, with Fairport being ” my” band for almost 60 years, I have already ordered and look forward to a cosy reading experience full of already known facts. With a glass of red wine beside me and ”Come All Ye” playing over the speakers, I am sure I will have a splendid time. 8)


Cripes - how did you manage that, then?   ;) :) ;D


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jim on May 03, 2018, 04:42:30 PM


I was rather disappointed by ”Fairport by Fairport” - not as much behind the headlines as I’d hoped - my hopes are low that Heylin will present me with anything more than a band update from 2012. But, with Fairport being ” my” band for almost 60 years, I have already ordered and look forward to a cosy reading experience full of already known facts. With a glass of red wine beside me and ”Come All Ye” playing over the speakers, I am sure I will have a splendid time. 8)


Cripes - how did you manage that, then?   ;) :) ;D


 ;D


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Staffan on May 03, 2018, 11:18:01 PM


I was rather disappointed by ”Fairport by Fairport” - not as much behind the headlines as I’d hoped - my hopes are low that Heylin will present me with anything more than a band update from 2012. But, with Fairport being ” my” band for almost 60 years, I have already ordered and look forward to a cosy reading experience full of already known facts. With a glass of red wine beside me and ”Come All Ye” playing over the speakers, I am sure I will have a splendid time. 8)


Cripes - how did you manage that, then?   ;) :) ;D

Ah, these numbers in foreign lingua  8)  ::)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Pat Helms on May 25, 2018, 12:41:55 PM

Interesting that both Simon and Iain Matthews have remarked positively about it (and of course he is safe from Swarb's acid tongue now...)


Maybe Oscar Wilde said it best:
"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jamie73 on May 27, 2018, 10:40:38 AM

Interesting that both Simon and Iain Matthews have remarked positively about it (and of course he is safe from Swarb's acid tongue now...)


Does anybody know who else has been interviewed for this book?


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: jude on May 27, 2018, 12:37:54 PM


Interesting that both Simon and Iain Matthews have remarked positively about it (and of course he is safe from Swarb's acid tongue now...)


Does anybody know who else has been interviewed for this book?

Not me, so if there are any quotes they will be from interviews with other people and may be out of context.  :o


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Pat Helms on May 28, 2018, 02:52:20 PM



Interesting that both Simon and Iain Matthews have remarked positively about it (and of course he is safe from Swarb's acid tongue now...)


Does anybody know who else has been interviewed for this book?

Not me, so if there are any quotes they will be from interviews with other people and may be out of context.  :o


I'm just excited to finally get to read about all the hotels y'all trashed!!


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: jude on May 28, 2018, 03:29:31 PM




Interesting that both Simon and Iain Matthews have remarked positively about it (and of course he is safe from Swarb's acid tongue now...)


Does anybody know who else has been interviewed for this book?

Not me, so if there are any quotes they will be from interviews with other people and may be out of context.  :o


I'm just excited to finally get to read about all the hotels y'all trashed!!


Yes I'll be fascinated by those stories too!!  ;D


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: bassline (Mike) on June 08, 2018, 10:18:40 AM
My copy has just this second dropped through the letterbox. Let's have a look, then.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: GubGub (Al) on June 08, 2018, 10:29:02 AM

My copy has just this second dropped through the letterbox. Let's have a look, then.


Same here but I can't look at it as it is a present for someone else. I can't get my own copy until I find out whether this is a duplicated gift, which won't be until September!  :o


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: bassline (Mike) on June 08, 2018, 10:52:11 AM
That's a bit of a pain. I'll try to avoid spoilers.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Will S on June 08, 2018, 10:55:19 AM

That's a bit of a pain. I'll try to avoid spoilers.


Don't try too hard.  Some of us are relying on you to know whether it's worth splashing the cash ourselves!


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: bassline (Mike) on June 08, 2018, 11:03:32 AM
OK....but I'm not going to tell you if they manage to get a recording contract, or have any hits, or create a new musical genre, or do any festivals or anything like that.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 08, 2018, 02:19:44 PM

OK....but I'm not going to tell you if they manage to get a recording contract, or have any hits, or create a new musical genre, or do any festivals or anything like that.


And don't tell us of any cast list changes from one season to the next either.

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 08, 2018, 05:02:20 PM
My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.

Shite packing (a heavy hardback book in a little jiffy bag?  Sigh...) so I've asked for a replacement/refund as the inevitable has happened.

Really peed off as I was wanting to read it on holiday....


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 08, 2018, 05:13:23 PM

My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.


I'm up for reading it, but would actively prefer not to have the loathsome toad's autograph.

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 08, 2018, 05:30:12 PM


My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.


I'm up for reading it, but would actively prefer not to have the loathsome toad's autograph.

Jules


I think that's a bit harsh, despite the obvious and understandable feelings in some (close-by) quarters.  He's written some decent books, even though there's plenty to disagree about with most of them...


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 08, 2018, 06:43:42 PM

My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.

Shite packing (a heavy hardback book in a little jiffy bag?  Sigh...) so I've asked for a replacement/refund as the inevitable has happened.

Really peed off as I was wanting to read it on holiday....


To be fair, their customer service was exceptional.  I'm going to read this one on my hols, and then offer up the damaged one as a freebie to someone that couldn't otherwise afford one....


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: RobertD on June 08, 2018, 08:42:21 PM



My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.


I'm up for reading it, but would actively prefer not to have the loathsome toad's autograph.

Jules


I think that's a bit harsh, despite the obvious and understandable feelings in some (close-by) quarters.  He's written some decent books, even though there's plenty to disagree about with most of them...


Some might argue that having plenty to disagree about means he does not write such decent books....

I only read the Sandy book so have nothing else to base his writing on personally. But add me to the chorus of it being a hatchet job, especially regarding Trevor Lucas.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 09, 2018, 12:08:28 AM

I think that's a bit harsh, despite the obvious and understandable feelings in some (close-by) quarters.  He's written some decent books, even though there's plenty to disagree about with most of them...


I pretty much always...or at least usually...enjoy the books, but I dislike the man.

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Bob Barrows on June 09, 2018, 12:21:35 AM




My signed copy arrived from the publishers today.


I'm up for reading it, but would actively prefer not to have the loathsome toad's autograph.

Jules


I think that's a bit harsh, despite the obvious and understandable feelings in some (close-by) quarters.  He's written some decent books, even though there's plenty to disagree about with most of them...


Some might argue that having plenty to disagree about means he does not write such decent books....

I only read the Sandy book so have nothing else to base his writing on personally. But add me to the chorus of it being a hatchet job, especially regarding Trevor Lucas.
Why are you sure of this? Is there a chance that everything he had to say about Trevor was true?


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Simon Withers on June 09, 2018, 07:18:09 AM
…my copy arrived yesterday also…in a jiffy bag...ripped and open at one end…slightly damaged goods contained within...


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: hendo (Dave) on June 09, 2018, 07:31:59 AM
There is an interesting thread here as to whether you can enjoy somebody's art irrespective of their personality or personal life.
I like Wagner ......although I am very aware of his political opinions.
I like the poetry of Philip Larkin but find some of his personal views anathema to me.
The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour .
 I love John Martyn's music but his behaviour towards Beverley was abhorrent........I could go on.
Sandy was one of those singers who just touched me with her voice.........but she was no saint.....'high maintenance' as RT put it and she developed a serious drink problem. Trevor was also no saint, his behaviour towards Sandy could be seen as the catalyst for some of her behaviours so let's not sanctify them or put them on pedestals , let's just enjoy the work they produced.



Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 09, 2018, 07:53:07 AM

let's just enjoy the work they produced.


There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: hendo (Dave) on June 09, 2018, 08:35:45 AM


let's just enjoy the work they produced.


There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?

Jules

I think so Jules but that will be an individual's subjective view. We will all have different cut off levels.
I have no interest whatsoever in the proclivities of celebrities. I am however interested in what may motivate and inform someone's art . Eg Sandy's perceived frustration at not finding mainstream success .
It is however, as you say, a thin line.
Do I need to know about Eliza Carthys battles with her weight to bask in her music?


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: YaBB Master (Colin) on June 09, 2018, 08:47:17 AM


let's just enjoy the work they produced.

There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?
Jules


I agree and different people will have different cut-off points, for different reasons. (BTW I'm declaring this on-topic)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: GubGub (Al) on June 09, 2018, 11:15:02 AM



let's just enjoy the work they produced.

There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?
Jules


I agree and different people will have different cut-off points, for different reasons. (BTW I'm declaring this on-topic)


Very much so and it tends to be inconsistent, certainly in my case. I am aware that there are artists whose work I refuse to tolerate because of concerns I have about their pesonality, behaviour or politics. On the other hand there are others who I forgive too easily because I could not bear to give up on their creations. A number of records featuring Philip Pickett for example or the films of Woody Allen (though the case against the latter is very much unproven).

I have read several of Mr Heylin's books and have always enjoyed them, including the Sandy book (over a sunny Cropredy weekend when it was first published). I know nothing of him personally so in his case my judgement is not coloured. Neither do I know whether anything he has written is necessarily wrong but, in any case, it did not make me think the less of anyone involved, at least artistically and by now I have forgotten all the rest of it anyway.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Alan2 on June 09, 2018, 11:32:00 AM
What has Clinton Heylin done to incur such dislike?  Sorry, I just need to catch up.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 09, 2018, 12:24:42 PM

What has Clinton Heylin done to incur such dislike?  Sorry, I just need to catch up.


He's brutal in his opinions regarding other writers, declaring himself the only one who has the answers.  He's often similarly brutal in his opinions regarding some of the musicians he writes about, often overlooking a more balanced perspective (cf Trevor Lucas).  His research is often top notch, but he can be real pitbull as a writer and as a human being.

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: bassline (Mike) on June 09, 2018, 01:36:55 PM
I'm not choosing a side of the fence here, but maybe because his research is top notch, he gets deeper into what it was really like - or at least, how people who were there perceived things to be like - and that fuels his belief that he does a better job than others.

I actually asked him about the Sandy book that same Cropredy - I guess - that Al mentioned. I'd pre-ordered the book when it was first publicised, but it was delayed, and Heylin took over the project from the previous author. The book arrived prior to Croppers, and I took it with me, and had started to read it, but hadn't read enough of it to make a judgement. It turned out that he was there signing copies, so I popped over to ask him why there had been a change of authors. He seemed a little embarrassed, but answered anyway, that the publishers weren't too happy with the original draft, that, yes, the research wasn't detailed enough and the original attempt was a bit..meh. (Not his exact words - it was a while ago,) but he didn't seem egotistical or anything.

When I did finish the book, I didn't get a feeling that he'd done an Albert Goldman-style character assassination job on people who are no longer with us to be able to take legal action.
The Sandy/Trevor relationship was obviously fraught, and such relationships happen. That aspect of people's private lives is exactly that, private, and should remain so, in my opinion. It's not part of the deal...we buy a record we get a record, we don't have a right to know what's going on behind closed doors. If the artist chooses to include their thoughts and feelings in their work, that's their choice, and that's different. I'm sure Sandy wrote about Trevor, and herself, layered as it may be in poetic language.

Famously, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, has various members singing songs about the other members all over the place. There's also Loudon and Martha Wainwright writing songs about each other, sometimes direct responses to other songs. They chose to write those songs and make them public, but I still feel like i'm intruding.

To go back to biographies, even autobiographies, if it gives insight into the art, then OK....if it's just gossip about human failings, then I don't want to know..none of us are perfect and it serves no purpose.



Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Neil on June 09, 2018, 05:07:51 PM
Fairport Convention more than any band I am aware of elicit the feeling that we know them, and for some that may be true in fact. This means that it is almost impossible for some to have an opinion that is not influenced by this perceived personal relationship. It is almost as if the bias outweighs the truth.

Many take it as a personal insult to dislike a particular lineup/song rather than what it is which is an expression of preference. Over the years I have come to understand that they have produced music I have loved and music I can easily discard in all incarnations and that is just fine with me. The times I have met them they have been charming, and grumpy and annoying as well as great fun.

I will be interested in the Heylin book, the Humphries and the Fairport by Fairport books were unsatisfactory in some way, either too reverential or cursory sometimes in the same book. Of course it may just be true that these are just a bunch of people who mainly like each other have had the usual fallings out and and arguments and getting back togethers. What I am interested in is the creative process and the music not the bickering of drunken/stoned people.

Luckily I have not had to face where the cut-off point is with an artist around their behaviorI like, although Swarb once pissed me off enough I swore never to go see him again, this lasted about until the next time he came around as I always enjoyed his playing if not him.

Neil


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: delfini (Diane) on June 09, 2018, 05:28:17 PM

There is an interesting thread here as to whether you can enjoy somebody's art irrespective of their personality or personal life.
I like Wagner ......although I am very aware of his political opinions.
I like the poetry of Philip Larkin but find some of his personal views anathema to me.
The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour .
 I love John Martyn's music but his behaviour towards Beverley was abhorrent........I could go on.
Sandy was one of those singers who just touched me with her voice.........but she was no saint.....'high maintenance' as RT put it and she developed a serious drink problem. Trevor was also no saint, his behaviour towards Sandy could be seen as the catalyst for some of her behaviours so let's not sanctify them or put them on pedestals , let's just enjoy the work they produced.




Nicely put, thanks.

I’m sure my cut off points differ from others, but that’s ok. What’s right for me is not necessarily right for others, and that’s fine. Happy to respect others’positions even if I don’t agree with them.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Albie on June 09, 2018, 08:41:23 PM



let's just enjoy the work they produced.

There is a cut-off point though, isn't there?
Jules


I agree and different people will have different cut-off points, for different reasons. (BTW I'm declaring this on-topic)


True, but I wonder how many people still listen to Lost Prophets? I didn't have much of their music, but what I did left my iPod fairly sharpish, I couldn't face it.

Mostly, I'm happy to just listen to the music and am not that concerned with the details of the artistes lives (and The Fall have just turned up on my iPod, which illustrates the point I suppose).



Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: GubGub (Al) on June 09, 2018, 09:37:32 PM

What I am interested in is the creative process and the music not the bickering of drunken/stoned people.



Except that those things give context to the music. To give a well known example, how much more immediate and visceral is the experience of listening to the albums Ram or Imagine, given what we know of the the state of Lennon and McCartney's relationship at the time, which informed some of those songs?

I'm not suggesting that we should have the right to know all of the intimate details of the private lives of our favourite artists but it is often instructive to understand the circumstances that inform the work, particularly with with confessional writers which, to some degree, both Sandy and RT were/are for example. It is probably less relevant for someone like Randy Newman whose writing is more detached.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: peter m on June 09, 2018, 09:47:17 PM


What has Clinton Heylin done to incur such dislike?  Sorry, I just need to catch up.


He's brutal in his opinions regarding other writers, declaring himself the only one who has the answers.  He's often similarly brutal in his opinions regarding some of the musicians he writes about, often overlooking a more balanced perspective (cf Trevor Lucas).  His research is often top notch, but he can be real pitbull as a writer and as a human being.

Jules


Yes agree. His dismissal of Robert Shelton on Dylan has always stuck in my mind, almost as if competition was some kind of personal threat. And Shelton was actually there at some key moments in the 60s, wrote the article which gave him his break, wrote the sleeve notes for Freewheelin' etc. He just can't be dismissed like that.

Then wasn't there a weird outburst at the end of the second edition of the Sandy book where Heylin has a rant at the executors of her estate for not exercising proper quality control over the releases, the box set etc, the sole exception being the one he wrote the sleeve notes for. See Philip Ward's site. Again almost as if for example Andrew Batt has no right to be invading his territory.

Not pleasant but he knows how to do research of the what happened and why kind. I predict he will have found out things which are new to most aficionados. But a lot depends on what sort of sources he has access to. With Dylan there was a private treasure trove of bootlegs which in retrospect he based a lot on. Is there anything to be unearthed about the music side of things with fairport which isn't already out there?

So reviews behind a spoiler notice would be good,


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Andy on June 09, 2018, 11:51:24 PM
Just a short interjection to note that Morrissey crossed all cut-off lines for me over the course of the last few years.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Neil on June 10, 2018, 02:16:07 AM


What I am interested in is the creative process and the music not the bickering of drunken/stoned people.



Except that those things give context to the music. To give a well known example, how much more immediate and visceral is the experience of listening to the albums Ram or Imagine, given what we know of the the state of Lennon and McCartney's relationship at the time, which informed some of those songs?

I'm not suggesting that we should have the right to know all of the intimate details of the private lives of our favourite artists but it is often instructive to understand the circumstances that inform the work, particularly with with confessional writers which, to some degree, both Sandy and RT were/are for example. It is probably less relevant for someone like Randy Newman whose writing is more detached.


I don't find the in depth confessional stuff very interesting, it's why I never got to the end of the Graham Nash book, I guess understanding the relationship is one thing, being forced to live with them the point and counterpoint of arguments is annoying for me.

I


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Andy on June 10, 2018, 10:26:35 AM
The truth is that many of our musical heroes have feet of clay.  The list of artistes who are arseholes but whose music I like is a very long one. It's only very occasionally that I stop listening to them altogether - Gary Glitter doesn't get played at our 70s parties, for instance.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Alan2 on June 10, 2018, 02:48:43 PM
This is an interesting thread. I'm finding it more  so perhaps, because I almost make a point of not reading books about music. I've been a great Strawbs fan, for instance, for many years, but I'm in no great hurry to read Dave Cousins's autobiography.. The book about all of the  DC/Strawbs songs and their origins I did read, and found it only of minimal interest. I bought Fairport by Fairport on publication, and read it very carefully, then sold it online.  I absolutely love Sandy Denny but I still have not read Clinton Heylin's book about her. I'm a great fan of Nick Drake, but the Patrick Humphries book has been on my 'to read' list since it came out, and that must be a couple of decades ago.  I think there's part of me that wants to keep the art and the artist well insulated from every temper tantrum and infidelity they may have indulged in, which a thorough biography might reveal, and interfere with my enjoyment of the music.

 


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Peter H-K on June 10, 2018, 04:30:19 PM


The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour



In fairness, it kind of always was.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: hendo (Dave) on June 10, 2018, 06:14:25 PM



The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour



In fairness, it kind of always was.

Before his 'fall' Harris's paintings were selling for £50,000 plus.
After his court case they were selling for £7,500 .


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Peter H-K on June 10, 2018, 07:12:58 PM




The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour



In fairness, it kind of always was.

Before his 'fall' Harris's paintings were selling for £50,000 plus.
After his court case they were selling for £7,500 .


Aha! You meant financial worth. My comment was about aesthetic worth.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 10, 2018, 09:36:39 PM


The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour  

In fairness, it kind of always was.


Whatever else he may or may not have done, I always thought he was a talented painter.

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: hendo (Dave) on June 11, 2018, 06:39:54 AM





The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour



In fairness, it kind of always was.

Before his 'fall' Harris's paintings were selling for £50,000 plus.
After his court case they were selling for £7,500 .


Aha! You meant financial worth. My comment was about aesthetic worth.

Ah, aesthetic worth will always be subjective.
One of my wife's paintings was in an exhibition and I stood behind a woman as she expounded to a friend how much she liked it and was going to buy it.
She then asked some pretentious bloke if she should like it or not!!!!! He talked some kings new clothes b*****ks and she didn't buy it. She came back sometime later, vacillating, to find it had been sold. Karma!


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: hendo (Dave) on June 11, 2018, 06:41:52 AM



The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour  

In fairness, it kind of always was.


Whatever else he may or may not have done, I always thought he was a talented painter.

Jules

That's the point really, isn't it Jules. Can you seperate. the art/ music from the artist.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jim on June 11, 2018, 09:47:10 AM




The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour



In fairness, it kind of always was.

Before his 'fall' Harris's paintings were selling for £50,000 plus.
After his court case they were selling for £7,500 .



Aye, but just wait till he dies.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: GubGub (Al) on June 11, 2018, 10:29:50 AM




The art work of Rolf Harris is now effectively worthless because of his behaviour  

In fairness, it kind of always was.


Whatever else he may or may not have done, I always thought he was a talented painter.

Jules

That's the point really, isn't it Jules. Can you seperate. the art/ music from the artist.



Ask the BBC. The beautiful art deco Broadcasting House is adorned with the sculptures of one of the most loathsome individuals ever to be celebrated as an artist. The BBC did not know that at the time of course but the Eric Gill saga continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/apr/09/eric-gill-the-body-ditchling-exhibition-rachel-cooke


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 11, 2018, 11:51:21 AM

Ask the BBC. The beautiful art deco Broadcasting House is adorned with the sculptures of one of the most loathsome individuals ever to be celebrated as an artist. The BBC did not know that at the time of course but the Eric Gill saga continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/apr/09/eric-gill-the-body-ditchling-exhibition-rachel-cooke


Gulp.  I had no idea.

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Simon Withers on June 11, 2018, 12:29:45 PM
Blimey! I had no idea about Eric Gill…all we can do is honestly look deep within our selves and to see if we can separate the artist (but not exclusively so) from his/her work from how they have treated others…it is a massive moral, ethical conundrum to deal with…each and everyone of us (I feel) has to take this journey on a case by case basis…I tread carefully yet sometimes (such as in the case of Jackson Pollock) I am fascinated with his work…he was a real horror show to Lee and no doubt I still struggle to make an informed decision (if one is blatantly asked to come down on one side or the other)…it is not about sitting on the fence…the repercussions of committing any individual to a single state which then becomes the bench mark for every human failing could mean we loose art, music…architecture…books, knowledge, and so on and so forth…I have no answers…I feel better informed now about Eric Gill…and i am just a little more hollow inside.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Simon Withers on June 15, 2018, 09:17:25 AM
This morning I have completed the reading of Clinton’s Book…I am not best disposed to write a review of the book…what I will write is other than a few books on the band, Meet on the ledge (Humphries 1982) and Fairport by Fairport (Schofield 2012) and the usual sleeve notes from CD’s, subscriptions to the Ledge fanzine and material picked up over the years from this website; I am not really that informed about the more personal narratives of the band.

I found the book informative and overall a valuable and earthy (and sometimes) an emotional and moving account of the people involved…for me (as aforementioned) there is content within that is new to me…so I wasn’t thinking I knew that…as I was reading it. I would also say that overall his assessment (given the passage of time) of some of their albums made me realise (when I reflect back) that I felt similar to his feelings and assesments on albums such as ‘Rosie’ and ‘Gottle of Beer’…I could not always convince myself (at the time) that I disliked some material on those LP’s or why other LPs had something not quite right…One of my favourite Fairport songs is ‘One More Chance’, even now i love it to death…something is not quite right within it…and have (for me) always known what it is…they are trying too hard…grasping…hanging by a thread…holding on (only just) willing something to work  with the analogies of grasping on to the ledge (slipping into Heylin teritorry!)...this may not make sense to anyone else…its a feeling or more specifically a profound sense of the stuff in between that which is presented…it is the space…it is the human art…it is the art.. and yet the explanation (I am aware) is inadequate.

It was I realise that I was and remain a loving fan of the band. Certainly there are a few comments in the book that that req further investigation…and I did not always warm to the author illustrating his narrative by inserting a ‘knowing’ fairport (family) song title…to ram home the irony, the insightfulness…that said the trauma of the ‘Shoot out the Lights’ time is actually very raw…

I prefer this book than the one written by Nigel and I will not go into my reasons herewith why it resonated with me…suffice to say although I am not a musician I am a visual artist…I can identify with the 'endurance of the journey’…a celebration and the tragedy go hand in hand…

if you have space in your life and you are interested in Fairport…give it a go.



Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Will S on June 15, 2018, 10:01:41 AM
Thanks, Simon.

Good to read your review.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 15, 2018, 06:56:55 PM
I've just finished it, and I'll (probably, given time of which I have very little now my lovely little holiday is over) write a full review in the next few days.  

Overall headline summary: enormously frustrating, massively opinionated (which is almost always presented as fact), and (very occasionally) inaccurate, but most assuredly well worth reading (but with nasty cheap paper and production definitely not worth the £25 quid cover price).  Also, some extremely odd virtual emissions (D.M hardly appears in the story at all until the point he's due to leave the band...what is that all about?).  Still, I learnt a great deal, especially about Ashley, actually.  It rather changed my opinion of him.  It's a somewhat disappointing reality that (as much as I like some of the other titles) this is the definitive story of '67-'82(ish).  So far...

ps Heylin's photo in the rear of the book is hilarious (well, it makes me laugh, anyway).  A face just begging for a slap.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: DarrenWilliams on June 15, 2018, 10:24:43 PM

Still, I learnt a great deal, especially about Ashley, actually.  It rather changed my opinion of him.


Intriguing. Positively or negatively?

(Or should I just read the book?? ☺)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jamie73 on June 16, 2018, 08:20:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjL0fz5wk4&t=350s

Clinton Heylin interviewing John Wood (35 minutes) whilst promoting the book.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 16, 2018, 01:11:34 PM


Still, I learnt a great deal, especially about Ashley, actually.  It rather changed my opinion of him.


Intriguing. Positively or negatively?

(Or should I just read the book?? ☺)


Positively, definitely - I've always thought I didn't like the bloke at all.  I hadn't understood quite how affected by the crash he was....

Richard, on the other hand, despite Heylin's (and obviously justified) hero worship doesn't come out of the story quite as brightly as he has been painted in the past.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 16, 2018, 01:48:25 PM

Richard, on the other hand, despite Heylin's (and obviously justified) hero worship doesn't come out of the story quite as brightly as he has been painted in the past.


Intrigue, intrigue....

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 16, 2018, 02:15:49 PM
One other small thing - am I the only person that thinks the title is dreadful and doesn't make any sense at all?  

God, you should hear me when I don't like a book....  ;D


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: jude on June 16, 2018, 02:28:40 PM

One other small thing - am I the only person that thinks the title is dreadful and doesn't make any sense at all?  

God, you should hear me when I don't like a book....  ;D

It is a clunky title  ::)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: mightyglydd on June 16, 2018, 05:12:22 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjL0fz5wk4&t=350s

Clinton Heylin interviewing John Wood (35 minutes) whilst promoting the book.


Thanks, nice to hear from John, put a smile on my face.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: jude on June 17, 2018, 12:36:49 PM
The most surprising thing about this book is (spoiler in case people don't want to know)



Which I find a bit weird... :o


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 17, 2018, 01:49:27 PM

The most surprising thing about this book is (spoiler in case people don't want to know)



Which I find a bit weird... :o


And in reality, he rather gives up on the history of the band themselves c.76 being much more interested in (mainly) R&L & Sandy, but also a bit of Iain and Ashley as well.  I dunno...he's clearly no fan of the post-85 band.  And (arguably) there is less to write about them really.  A quick flick at the contents page makes it clear what you're getting (I think), even if the title (I keep shaking my head at it every time I look at the book) doesn't.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 17, 2018, 01:58:23 PM
FREE COPY  :)

Ok, due to the publishers sending me a damaged copy (it has bumps to the corners..if you're not anal about it and just want the words, then all good...if you are, move along now) and then a replacement copy soon afterwards, I've got a gratis copy of the Heylin book (signed) to give to someone who couldn't otherwise afford it.  Just drop me a line privately, and I'll choose a recipient in a day or two.  I'm also putting this offer out to those on Fairporters (Facebook).

UK Only, I'm afraid.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Shane (Skirky) on June 17, 2018, 03:02:52 PM

The most surprising thing about this book is (spoiler in case people don't want to know)


...and, for that reason, I’m out.  [;-)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Simon Withers on June 17, 2018, 05:42:43 PM

The most surprising thing about this book is (spoiler in case people don't want to know)



Which I find a bit weird... :o
n


The canny lad is possibly going to do the Fairport history in two parts…then produce it a single volume ‘Coffee Table’ edition…with amendments! …long term strategy perhaps…as the history continues... ;)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 17, 2018, 05:54:43 PM


The most surprising thing about this book is (spoiler in case people don't want to know)



Which I find a bit weird... :o
n


The canny lad is possibly going to do the Fairport history in two parts…then produce it a single volume ‘Coffee Table’ edition…with amendments! …long term strategy perhaps…as the history continues... ;)


I don't even think he really likes the more modern material of the members of Fairport he does rate, so I rate that unlikely!


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: David W on June 17, 2018, 06:00:09 PM


The most surprising thing about this book is (spoiler in case people don't want to know)


...and, for that reason, I’m out.  [;-)



I guess Cropredy goes well and they played Leamington Spa lacks drama?


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jim on June 17, 2018, 07:35:12 PM


The most surprising thing about this book is (spoiler in case people don't want to know)



Which I find a bit weird... :o
n


The canny lad is possibly going to do the Fairport history in two parts…then produce it a single volume ‘Coffee Table’ edition…with amendments! …long term strategy perhaps…as the history continues... ;)


Have you not read the Woodworm Years, possibly the dullest book ever written.
Let's face it, all the really interesting stuff happened in the early years. I can't think he will do a sequel unless someone offers him a whole heap of cash.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: YaBB Master (Colin) on June 17, 2018, 09:37:04 PM

Let's face it, all the really interesting stuff happened in the early years.

Methinks there's a book in the last three decades, but I don't think we need to read it.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 17, 2018, 09:45:50 PM
Oh I dunno, the Swarb feuds would at least be an interesting addendum.

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Andy on June 18, 2018, 12:43:55 AM
Describing this book as a "stunning new biography from one of the leading rock historians in the world" sounds just a tad over the top, especially since it only covers 15 out of 51 years of the band. If you wrote a biography of almost anyone that stopped at 15 you'd be left with totally false expectations for what happened next.

I haven't read it and can't say I'm bothered to do so. I should say that I found "Fairport by Fairport" sufficiently unexciting that I read it and sold it on immediately. There was enough left out of that book to leave some gaping holes.

I read Jude's book (buy it here (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FHNJWJ4/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)) with enthusiasm, so much so that I bought another copy to give to my sister, the only other book in this area I've found informative was the unpublished "No Thought Of Leaving - A Life Of Sandy Denny" by Pamela Murray Winters. Occasionally very frank, but that shouldn't put anyone off if you can blag a copy somewhere.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 18, 2018, 06:46:32 AM
Only my own personal opinion, but I think if some of you "I don't want to read its" actually read it you would learn something and enjoy the ride (annoying as it sometimes is).  Having a biography of an artist's (or a group's) main creative period is certainly not the crime some of you seem to suggest it is...it happens all the time. Tbh, I'd rather that than the usual one chapter 'and then this happened (in the next 40 years)' summation in many biographies!


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Shane (Skirky) on June 18, 2018, 08:01:09 AM
I agree with many of the points raised by m’learned friends, however I would very much be interested in the era when a presumed mainstay of the band leaves in a huff, the band are effectively barred from touring America, the principal festival backer sells up and moves to France, the drummer swears he’ll never set foot on the Cropredy stage again, and the replacement fiddle player puts his hand through a plate glass window leading to his temporary replacement with a potential replacement. And that’s without the labyrinthine series of record deals involved.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 18, 2018, 06:25:58 PM

I agree with many of the points raised by m’learned friends, however I would very much be interested in the era when a presumed mainstay of the band leaves in a huff, the band are effectively barred from touring America, the principal festival backer sells up and moves to France, the drummer swears he’ll never set foot on the Cropredy stage again, and the replacement fiddle player puts his hand through a plate glass window leading to his temporary replacement with a potential replacement. And that’s without the labyrinthine series of record deals involved.


Lol.  The Woodworm Years really is rubbish, isn't it?   ;D


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 18, 2018, 06:27:35 PM
Incidentally, re: the freebie advertised above.  There has been healthy interest both from Talkawhilers and from Fairporters so i'll be closing the books at Midnight tonight - and will try and find a random number way of selecting the lucky recipient sometime tomorrow....  :)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: David W on June 18, 2018, 08:04:47 PM

... the band are effectively barred from touring America ...


Really? By whom and why, not something I was ever aware of.

DW


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: blagden on June 18, 2018, 08:09:14 PM

Incidentally, re: the freebie advertised above.  There has been healthy interest both from Talkawhilers and from Fairporters so i'll be closing the books at Midnight tonight - and will try and find a random number way of selecting the lucky recipient sometime tomorrow....  :)


"Last call for anyone that wants the tickets to the HRH Prog Festival that I've won.  Looks like I'm getting back to them with a "thanks, but no thanks" which is a pity with £600's worth of tickets...."

... been here before and for whatever reason nobody finished up with anything?  ;)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Shane (Skirky) on June 18, 2018, 08:27:19 PM


... the band are effectively barred from touring America ...


Really? By whom and why, not something I was ever aware of.

DW


https://www.banburyguardian.co.uk/news/pegg-rests-in-the-usa-after-bust-up-1-587305

As I recall, they weren’t invited back. However, I suspect that nobody really wants to revisit all that malarkey while they’re still sharing a van. And, to be fair, even the official blurb reads: So, fifty years on, now seems like the right time to tell the full story: to collect all the family lore that surrounds Fairport and its surrogates, and to disentangle the many highs and lows from those first fifteen years of Fotheringport Confusion.

My emphasis on the bold.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Shane (Skirky) on June 18, 2018, 08:33:06 PM

It’s an inconsequential aside on a forgotten sleevenote, but I’d really like to hear more about Simon Nicol telling Martin Carthy to “Do it again”, or about the Three Desperate Mortgages. ‘The Pebble Mill Years’,  I like to call them.  ;D


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Bob Barrows on June 18, 2018, 09:38:36 PM
... the band are effectively barred from touring America ...

Really? By whom and why, not something I was ever aware of.

DW

https://www.banburyguardian.co.uk/news/pegg-rests-in-the-usa-after-bust-up-1-587305

As I recall, they weren’t invited back. However, I suspect that nobody really wants to revisit all that malarkey while they’re still sharing a van. And, to be fair, even the official blurb reads: So, fifty years on, now seems like the right time to tell the full story: to collect all the family lore that surrounds Fairport and its surrogates, and to disentangle the many highs and lows from those first fifteen years of Fotheringport Confusion.

My emphasis on the bold.
Two years after that, this (http://www.talkawhile.co.uk/yabbse/index.php?topic=22017.msg269125#msg269125) happened. I'm not sure Simon and Chris have been back but Peggy and PJ played the New Bedfor Summerfest the following year.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jim on June 18, 2018, 11:42:10 PM


I agree with many of the points raised by m’learned friends, however I would very much be interested in the era when a presumed mainstay of the band leaves in a huff, the band are effectively barred from touring America, the principal festival backer sells up and moves to France, the drummer swears he’ll never set foot on the Cropredy stage again, and the replacement fiddle player puts his hand through a plate glass window leading to his temporary replacement with a potential replacement. And that’s without the labyrinthine series of record deals involved.


Lol.  The Woodworm Years really is rubbish, isn't it?   ;D

On so many levels


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on June 19, 2018, 06:29:01 PM
Ok, so 19 people (on TAW and Fairporters on FB) wanted the book.  I gave everyone a number roughly based on when they got in touch.  I then asked the landlady (with no explanation of why) to pick a number between 1 and 19.  No.12 was chosen.  Yvonne Bennett (of Fairporters) was the winner.  Thanks for playing everyone...sorry to the rest of you.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on June 19, 2018, 07:14:06 PM
 :'(

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Hans Valk on December 01, 2018, 01:19:29 PM
The dust has settled on this topic for some time, but here I am with my review on the book.

I think Heylin has produced quite a tour-de-force.
The book not only tells the story of Fairport, but also what members who left the band did afterwards.
I have never read the RT- biography by Patrick Humphries, but Heylin covers his pre-1982 history in good detail. Same for Ashley Hutchings (I did read the book about him by Brian Hinton, but found it unreadable) and Iain Matthews.
The writing stye is a little to jolly at times, but as someone mentioned earlier: Heylin's research is second to none and he tells the full story, including the nitty gritty. All sorts of interesting and funny details are included, such as James Burton (Elvis' guitarist) hearing RT doing 'The angels took my racehorse away' and asking Linda Thompson: "what is that language?"
 
The book ends at the right moment. What Fairport did after 1982 may be very enjoyable, but the times that made FC a beacon in British music were past then.

I know some of you have quite strong and negative opinions on Heylin, but evidently we still need someone like him to produce a history of FC that could be the definitive story on the band. I enjoyed it a lot more than 'Fairport on Fairport' to be honest.
And, perhaps to add insult to injury: I think his biography of Sandy Denny is better than the one Mick Houghton produced a few years ago.

--
Hans Valk


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Jules Gray on December 01, 2018, 02:25:12 PM

Same for Ashley Hutchings (I did read the book about him by Brian Hinton, but found it unreadable)


To dream
The impossible dream
To read
The unreadable book

Jules


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Hans Valk on December 01, 2018, 03:52:53 PM


Same for Ashley Hutchings (I did read the book about him by Brian Hinton, but found it unreadable)


To dream
The impossible dream
To read
The unreadable book

Jules


Yes, never shy of a contradictio in terminus.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: davidmjs on December 01, 2018, 05:08:39 PM

The dust has settled on this topic for some time, but here I am with my review on the book.

I think Heylin has produced quite a tour-de-force.
The book not only tells the story of Fairport, but also what members who left the band did afterwards.
I have never read the RT- biography by Patrick Humphries, but Heylin covers his pre-1982 history in good detail. Same for Ashley Hutchings (I did read the book about him by Brian Hinton, but found it unreadable) and Iain Matthews.
The writing stye is a little to jolly at times, but as someone mentioned earlier: Heylin's research is second to none and he tells the full story, including the nitty gritty. All sorts of interesting and funny details are included, such as James Burton (Elvis' guitarist) hearing RT doing 'The angels took my racehorse away' and asking Linda Thompson: "what is that language?"
 
The book ends at the right moment. What Fairport did after 1982 may be very enjoyable, but the times that made FC a beacon in British music were past then.

I know some of you have quite strong and negative opinions on Heylin, but evidently we still need someone like him to produce a history of FC that could be the definitive story on the band. I enjoyed it a lot more than 'Fairport on Fairport' to be honest.
And, perhaps to add insult to injury: I think his biography of Sandy Denny is better than the one Mick Houghton produced a few years ago.

--
Hans Valk


For all its failings - and there are many - it's by far the best book about Fairport around.  Never has such a major band had such awful literature produced about it....(The Humphries book is not bad, but most of the rest...)


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Hans Valk on December 02, 2018, 01:32:31 PM

Never has such a major band had such awful literature produced about it....(The Humphries book is not bad, but most of the rest...)


As far as quality is concerned; what can you expect?
The averidge quality of rock and pop literature is not very high, in my opinion. I have read lots of the stuff, and although I found all sorts of interesting facts, the literary quality (structure, style etc.) is often quite mediocre. Not to speak of books of which the author regards his subject in blind adoration. But as long as the general tone is passable and the research is good, it will have to do. I does not get any better than that, in many cases.

I have read the Humphries book on FC long ago, but in comparison with Heylin's book, I think it only skims the surface.

--
Hans Valk


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: fstix (Michael) on December 06, 2018, 03:36:28 PM
I got the Kindle version of the book just a couple of days ago.  I have some concerns when the very first sentence of the intro is palpable bovine excrement - saying "... every Fairport Convention incarnation has burned bright but ne'er long."  Every?  The current line-up has lasted over 20 years!  I know the book covers a limited timespan but I think it's an early indication of hyperbole and dismissal of reality that doesn't suit the author's narrative.

Likewise the previously noted "opinions stated as facts" eg dismissal of Sgt Pepper.

But going by other reviews here, I shall persevere and try to ignore the arrogance while I get to the worthy parts of the book, that are obviously there.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: Krinoid on February 24, 2019, 12:27:11 PM

I agree with many of the points raised by m’learned friends, however I would very much be interested in the era when a presumed mainstay of the band leaves in a huff, the band are effectively barred from touring America, the principal festival backer sells up and moves to France, the drummer swears he’ll never set foot on the Cropredy stage again, and the replacement fiddle player puts his hand through a plate glass window leading to his temporary replacement with a potential replacement. And that’s without the labyrinthine series of record deals involved.

They were looking to tour the states in 2009.


Title: Re: Clinton Heylin Fairport Biography
Post by: arie on February 26, 2019, 11:36:23 AM

"... every Fairport Convention incarnation has burned bright but ne'er long."  Every?  The current line-up has lasted over 20 years!


And some will say that it didn't burn bright either..... ???