TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Music In General => Radio Times => Topic started by: davidmjs on December 03, 2008, 05:12:25 PM



Title: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: davidmjs on December 03, 2008, 05:12:25 PM
Prog Rock Britannia

a 90 min special on BBC4 on Boxing Day evening....  :)

Sadly being in a Freeviewless part of the world after Dec 20 I shall be making full use of iPlayer.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Poor Will (Bill) on December 03, 2008, 07:03:12 PM

Prog Rock Britannia

a 90 min special on BBC4 on Boxing Day evening....  :)

Sadly being in a Freeviewless part of the world after Dec 20 I shall be making full use of iPlayer.

Quite agree. I've never understood why Freeview and DAB signals are such a hit and miss affair, especially when they are the only way to obtain certain so called National stations.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: david stevenson on December 03, 2008, 09:36:03 PM
One of the few times I'd prefer not to have good freeview reception.  ;)


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on December 03, 2008, 10:51:31 PM
I shall not be missing this one!!


Excellent  :)


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: hendo (Dave) on December 05, 2008, 08:55:03 PM
I,m having my mother for Christmas. Should have had a turkey.



   Sorry!


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Steve on December 05, 2008, 09:26:54 PM
Oh good, a big dose of Prog Rock.  ;D

Yes, it's overblown, excessive, often pretentious, self indulgent, etc. etc.

And that's why it's so good!


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Smithsinarazz on December 16, 2008, 02:18:53 PM
Well, if a person's temperamentally inclined to produce music that's overblown, excessive, self-indulgent etc., and doesn't, for fear of being thought all of those things, then he might just give himself Writer's Block and end up producing nothing but a feeble squeak. That said, I'm not a great one for Prog Rock myself, cos if you try to sing along with it you run out of breath. I might park my relatives in front of it and go out for a walk!

smiths  


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Anne T on December 26, 2008, 06:17:14 PM

Prog Rock Britannia

a 90 min special on BBC4 on Boxing Day evening....  :)

Sadly being in a Freeviewless part of the world after Dec 20 I shall be making full use of iPlayer.


Just looked for this in the schedules - it's actually on Friday 2nd January - so no need to send those relatives packing just yet!  :)


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on December 26, 2008, 08:25:50 PM
I'm so glad you posted this Anne T, I couldn't find the thread and thought I'd missed it.  ::)

Roll on 2nd Jan I say  :)


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: jude on December 26, 2008, 08:38:57 PM
I'll be watching it with great interest especially to see what kind of slant gets put on to some events.. and whether I agree with them ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on January 02, 2009, 02:32:54 PM
Don't forget this is on tonight - 9pm to 11.30pm  :)  :) I'm having a prog-rock party with nibbles and lager (I say "I" rather than "we" as "Eightiesman Mike" isn't that interested but will watch and take the micky).

Can't wait for a bit or early Genesis, Yes, ELP & Tull  ::) Best night of telly all year....



Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: GubGub (Al) on January 02, 2009, 03:27:15 PM

Don't forget this is on tonight - 9pm to 11.30pm  :)  :) I'm having a prog-rock party with nibbles and lager


Surely this should be a take away curry and a pint of vodka a la Rick Wakeman!


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on January 02, 2009, 04:18:44 PM


Don't forget this is on tonight - 9pm to 11.30pm  :)  :) I'm having a prog-rock party with nibbles and lager


Surely this should be a take away curry and a pint of vodka a la Rick Wakeman!

Actually it is a curry (last of the turkey) but I don't like vodka  :(


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Jim on January 02, 2009, 09:28:51 PM
well the lady wife is watching misomer murders on the big telly so i cant watch the footie on setanta so i am sat in the back kitchen on the lapdog watching the prog as there is absolutely nowt else worth bothering with

so far
the nice - not nice camera work
moody blues - whose hair was justin hayward wearing? it looked like a bad hat
tull - top stuff
wishbone ash - **** then, still ****
atomic rooster - poptastic
family - still pretty good
yes - theirs was some disgrace


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Sam on January 02, 2009, 09:52:40 PM
soft machine and caravan.. happy to see :) peter gabriel v entertaining but yes.... oh man lol
lots of v big hair !


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Jim on January 02, 2009, 10:02:58 PM
elp were grim as ever
but the king crimson at the end was an uplifting finish to a programme that was better than it might have been
i dint get soft machine then or now and caravan never meant anything in manchester, it was much more an amon duul 2 city


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Paul on January 02, 2009, 11:04:48 PM
I hope this is on BBC iplayer. I forgot to set the hard disc recorder.

Paul


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Anji on January 02, 2009, 11:33:24 PM
I only watched from half-way, I think;

all the VdGG must've been in the bit I missed   ::) ::) ::)


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Ollie on January 02, 2009, 11:38:19 PM
Dad and I just watched it. Dad is a big ELP fan and was very disappointed with the programme, cos it was very Yes orientated, with bits of Genesis and a little ELP in there too. I have to say I agree. I really must check out some Soft Machine tho, liked that  :)


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: tullist/raymond on January 03, 2009, 03:51:28 AM
Soft Machine is someone I liked alot in the early and mid seventies, as in those years I dove headlong never to return in jazz music, I lost touch w most of the stuff that smacked at all of fusion around the late seventies, with exceptions at Miles and earlier Weather Report and maybe this or that, so I ceased to investigate Soft Machine very far. In the last couple years having elements on my Pandora radio like National Health, who plied vaguely similar turf, or maybe John McLaughlin or Pat Metheny, something is telling that thing to play Soft Machine, and I must say I have really enjoyed most of it. I know Jimi was a fan and had them as the opener I think on several occasions, must have been their earliest years.
BTW which Tull clip did they use on that thing. My bet would be Aqualung from 77 Sight and Sound or that brief clip from Minstrel in Paris in 75. Since the program was about prog, hopefully they found a nice thick brick to use. I would not call it prog but I absolutely would call it Tull.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Jim on January 03, 2009, 09:32:40 AM
the bit of tull used was witches promise from top of the pops, was it 70 or 71?
the subsequent programme was just dull and anbout as pointless as prog itself, certainly not one to keep


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: davidmjs on January 03, 2009, 09:56:12 AM
It's now on the BBC's iPlayer...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00g8tfv/Prog_Rock_Britannia_An_Observation_in_Three_Movements/


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Paul on January 03, 2009, 12:41:48 PM
It was also repeated in the early hours of the morning, so I set the recorder to that.

Paul


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: jude on January 03, 2009, 01:05:53 PM
I thought it was great, all that hair and serious toothiness and some fantastic music (KC, Soft Machine and from the previous programme the Moody Blues)

I suppose it was quite hard to look really arty when playing one of those huge keyboards...lots of flailing about and stuff just to play two notes. wonderful... ;D


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Shane (Skirky) on January 03, 2009, 01:30:58 PM

I thought it was great, all that hair and serious toothiness and some fantastic music (KC)


Did he have his Sunshine Band with him?  ::)


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: jude on January 03, 2009, 01:52:07 PM


I thought it was great, all that hair and serious toothiness and some fantastic music (KC)


Did he have his Sunshine Band with him?  ::)


but of course.. they were all little rays of sunshine behind all that serious hair... ::) ;D


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Jim G on January 03, 2009, 03:26:17 PM
As a big Soft Machine fan I was delighted to see some clips including footage of Robert Wyatt sitting next to Hendrix in his "yellow suit that was made by Pam".

Sad hear them say that Tull was the only band whose frontman played a flute - what about Mutter Slater in Stackridge.

The problem with anything like this is fitting a whole era into a couple of hours, it'll always be about what they left out rather than included.  

Well done BBC anyway.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Brendan on January 03, 2009, 05:44:44 PM
Watch out total rambling, disjointed rant: Egg? The band member Monty / Morty seemed to be a little bitter, attacking anyone who had achieved longevity and success. We certainly don't here that very often!!! Ha, Ha, Ha. What is mainsteam anyway and why are there people out there who will only follow bands while they are obscure and once they achieve any form of notoriety they start using terms like "sell out" or "diluted". The same kind of people would, when at college or university, never tire of telling people how "weird" they are and how they don't fit in, why don't they take up the true mantle of a "weirdo, loner" and do a bit of serial killing then I might believe them. Still I could be wrong!!! Don't get me started on those people who collect records and don't take them out of their sleeves AAAAAArgh!!!!


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Anne T on January 03, 2009, 08:08:26 PM
As someone who missed out on most of this stuff first time round (we mostly "pogoed" to the Sex Pistols et al; we'd never heard anything by most of the groups in the programme and thought they were just for the more weird and "nerdy" boys in the 6th form - though most of us had probably heard some Genesis, Yes and ELP), I thought the 90 minute documentary was very interesting.

For a start, it explained why Peter Gabriel wore such bizarre costumes in the early film of Genesis; apparently the PA sytems were so bad that their lyrics couldn't be heard properly, so he felt the need to act the songs out!

I loved Ian Anderson explaining how one of Jethro Tull's LPs became a defining moment of prog rock, despite the fact that it was intended as a parody of the genre...

Also funny was how band members rued the fact that barely any women came to watch them and there were no female groupies!


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: davidmjs on January 03, 2009, 08:12:13 PM
Haven't watched it yet...was there any Van der Graaf Generator, any involvement from Peter H?


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Anne T on January 03, 2009, 08:24:40 PM

Haven't watched it yet...was there any Van der Graaf Generator, any involvement from Peter H?


No Van der Graf Generator in the documentary ... sorry, don't know who Peter H is.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Steve on January 03, 2009, 08:32:49 PM
A good pair of programs, even though they inevitably left out a lot. It's too big to cover in just 90mins.

One thing I never, ever, in a million years expected to discover is that King Crimson lyricist Pete Sinfield wrote The Land of Make Believe for Bucks Fizz!

From

Cats foot iron claw
Neuro-surgeons scream for more
At paranoias poison door.
Twenty first century schizoid man.


To

Stars in your eyes, little one
Where do you go to dream
To a place, we all know
The land of make believe



Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: davidmjs on January 03, 2009, 08:34:56 PM


Haven't watched it yet...was there any Van der Graaf Generator, any involvement from Peter H?


No Van der Graf Generator in the documentary ... sorry, don't know who Peter H is.


Thanks...sorry Peter Hammill, the main Van der Graaf chap.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Anji on January 03, 2009, 08:47:00 PM

I only watched from half-way, I think;

all the VdGG must've been in the bit I missed   ::) ::) ::)


must've been in the bit you missed  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on January 03, 2009, 09:22:06 PM
All I can say is Wot no Gently Giant?  >:(


Disgruntled of Barry


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Anji on January 03, 2009, 09:28:07 PM
Nor Gnidrolog  :-[


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: jude on January 03, 2009, 09:29:10 PM

All I can say is Wot no Gently Giant?  >:(


Disgruntled of Barry


There was a picture of the album sleeve  ;D

Which was more than VdGG got!


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on January 03, 2009, 09:35:03 PM
Very true Jude.

There was also no Curved Air which would have been the perfect opportunity to show that there were a few women in the genre.

I enjoyed the "live at the bbc" or whatever it was called, much better than the progumentary.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Andy on January 04, 2009, 01:17:56 AM
I thought the "progumentary" was indulgent, badly written and incredibly biased.

Pink Floyd were considered "progressive rockers". So were Led Zeppelin. By definition "Dark Side Of The Moon" is the definitive prog album.  Or "ZoSo" ;D. "Thick As A Brick"? Hardly.

Rat Scabies was a fan of Phil Collins? Give me a break. Then there was the boasting of Genesis' hit singles? If "Prog" was about anything it was albums, not bloody singalong singles. I liked them as a pop band. But they weren't "prog" at that stage.

Oh and definitive Genesis to be described with PG interviews? If not current ones then there have been many over the years. He was simply sidelined.  Which is shameful.

Couldn't abide it one iota. As you may have guessed.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Chris on January 04, 2009, 12:17:39 PM
NB - The Genesis gig tonight won't be on the iPlayer.....rights problem.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Jan_ on January 04, 2009, 12:34:39 PM
There were so many missed out (Camel? Alan Parsons Project?) that I'm beginning to think I didn't go through a prog rock phase at all.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Chris on January 04, 2009, 12:37:37 PM
Isn't it a three-part trilogy?


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Nuthouse on January 04, 2009, 12:38:24 PM

Isn't it a three-part trilogy?


Trilogies usually are, dude  ;D

Given the scale of prog-rock it is inevitable that there will be much that is either glossed over or not covered at all - as much as that will irk prog-rock fans. For me, it could have been a 12-part series and I would still be wanting more.

Loved the Soft Machine stuff and remembering watching Soft Machine at the Albert Hall that the BBC broadcast at the time.


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: AnnieD on January 04, 2009, 02:00:25 PM


Oh and definitive Genesis to be described with PG interviews? If not current ones then there have been many over the years. He was simply sidelined.  Which is shameful.

Couldn't abide it one iota. As you may have guessed.


And you would've thought that Steve Hackett wasn't even in the band!


Title: Re: Send the relatives packing!
Post by: Andy on January 04, 2009, 06:57:50 PM
Good point, well made!


Title: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: Tony H on January 05, 2009, 11:42:02 AM
Thought there'd be a thread on this and doing a search it said You may have meant to search for prig rock Brittani.

Anyways.  Watchable stuff I suppose it being a fairly semi serious documentary. I'm now actually more inclined towards Yes notwithstanding the crass stuff from Wakeman.  
I was a bit annoyed with Ian Anderson whom I thought was making it up about TAAB being a piss take.  I'm sure at the time it he was serious about it.  He didn't mention Passion Play which got panned at the the time and caused him to throw a mardy and not speak to the press.

Good old Egg and Robert Wyatt.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: fat Billy(Bill) on January 05, 2009, 11:44:09 AM
I watched most of this and rather enjoyed it. Nice to see some of the heros of my youth in full flight again.
Dear old Rick was only trying to be witty


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: abby (tank girl) on January 05, 2009, 11:55:30 AM

Thought there'd be a thread on this and doing a search it said You may have meant to search for prig rock Brittani.



that's cos you've found the sith ifricin version of TAW, molar!!


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: Tony H on January 05, 2009, 12:26:31 PM
Oh my lord.
I spelt Brittania wrong and can't change it.  


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: Ian_ on January 05, 2009, 12:31:17 PM

 Repeated tomorrow at 9 p.m. for those of us who missed it  :)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: Bob Barrows on January 05, 2009, 12:40:43 PM

Oh my lord.
I spelt Brittania wrong ... 
Twice!  ;D LOL

Sory, couldn't resist.  ;D


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: KascadeDan on January 05, 2009, 01:21:53 PM
It was a nice programme I thought. I was hoping to see a bit more Jethro Tull, but Aqualung and Thick as a Brick being mentioned on it, kinda sums up their prog rock period. I would place Jethro Tull under the category 'Abitofeverything Rock'.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: abby (tank girl) on January 05, 2009, 01:24:00 PM
[ducks]


 :o :o incoming!!!!!!!  ::) ::)

enter, sir tullist of the jethro to correct you..................................


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: malcolm weaver on January 05, 2009, 01:32:14 PM
I watched with much interest  the ELP bits, I wish someone could find more footage of King Crimson from 69 though!!


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: Ian_ on January 05, 2009, 01:50:46 PM


Oh my lord.
I spelt Brittania wrong ...
Twice!  ;D LOL

Sory, couldn't resist.  ;D


   Ahem!  ;D


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Paul on January 05, 2009, 01:57:34 PM
I've merged the two topics, and changed to the correct title.

Paul


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: tullist/raymond on January 05, 2009, 03:43:36 PM

[ducks]


 :o :o incoming!!!!!!!  ::) ::)

enter, sir tullist of the jethro to correct you..................................
No way Groove, I and most Tull fiends would agree with the Kascade Kid. I grew up through prog rock and still love alot of it, and consider it in some hands to still be a highly viable form. But I don't like it when either the media or Ian himself lumps Tull together with Yes, Moody's, ELP and Genesis. I have liked much of what all those 4 have done, just not most of it and considered all of those 4 to have been way more guilty of prog's infamous excesses, although during those years I feel Tull received the bulk of the critical wrath. God they love that codpiece, cannot get enough of it. And I will agree it would have looked pretty dumb on Elvis Costello or Stiv Bator. Man you got to earn the right to wear the codpiece, even Ian only had 3 or 4 codpiece worthy years, 71-5. I also like alot of that punk crowd quietly while no one was looking remaining Tull fans, Ramones, Johnny Rotten and Nick Cave come to mind. OK Nick Cave ain't punk. I have been an observer of Rock with varying degrees of interest since Feb 7, 64 and have yet to see anything with the originality of Jethro Tull maintained over 41 years, deeply in and mostly way out of the bright lights. I have noted other potential contenders such as say, King Crimson or even Fairport or Steeleye and the best I can say is, nice try, next. I think Ian's codpiece, David Palmer's sex change and Ian's flag comments have received as much mainstream ink as about 30 years of recorded output, largely trivialized as being the snot and panties guy from Aqualung, while their peers such as the thirty years dead Led Zeppelin are treated as a diety, although they can have that. I saw them both in their alleged heyday, and believe me it was not close, Tull vastly their live superior, and reliable on a nightly basis. They have been and do remain in my mind the most under valued commodity in the history of all rock music, not just prog. But if the alternative is to pay 300 dollars to see them in the stadium it has been very much for the better.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: Bob Barrows on January 05, 2009, 09:02:03 PM



Oh my lord.
I spelt Brittania wrong ...
Twice!  ;D LOL

Sory, couldn't resist.  ;D


   Ahem!  ;D
That was deliberate  :)
You weren't aware of the rule against pointing out someone's spelling/grammar mistake without making one of your own? I think it's a good rule so I adhere to it strictly.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: gower flower (Shirl) on January 05, 2009, 09:07:57 PM




Oh my lord.
I spelt Brittania wrong ...
Twice!  ;D LOL

Sory, couldn't resist.  ;D


   Ahem!  ;D
That was deliberate  :)
You weren't aware of the rule against pointing out someone's spelling/grammar mistake without making one of your own? I think it's a good rule so I adhere to it strictly.


Yeah, course you do Bob. ;D

Okay Mods, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic.......I'll get my coat.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: abby (tank girl) on January 06, 2009, 06:21:53 AM


[ducks]


 :o :o incoming!!!!!!!  ::) ::)

enter, sir tullist of the jethro to correct you..................................
No way Groove, I and most Tull fiends would agree with the Kascade Kid. I grew up through prog rock and still love alot of it, and consider it in some hands to still be a highly viable form. But I don't like it when either the media or Ian himself lumps Tull together with Yes, Moody's, ELP and Genesis. I have liked much of what all those 4 have done, just not most of it and considered all of those 4 to have been way more guilty of prog's infamous excesses, although during those years I feel Tull received the bulk of the critical wrath. God they love that codpiece, cannot get enough of it. And I will agree it would have looked pretty dumb on Elvis Costello or Stiv Bator. Man you got to earn the right to wear the codpiece, even Ian only had 3 or 4 codpiece worthy years, 71-5. I also like alot of that punk crowd quietly while no one was looking remaining Tull fans, Ramones, Johnny Rotten and Nick Cave come to mind. OK Nick Cave ain't punk. I have been an observer of Rock with varying degrees of interest since Feb 7, 64 and have yet to see anything with the originality of Jethro Tull maintained over 41 years, deeply in and mostly way out of the bright lights. I have noted other potential contenders such as say, King Crimson or even Fairport or Steeleye and the best I can say is, nice try, next. I think Ian's codpiece, David Palmer's sex change and Ian's flag comments have received as much mainstream ink as about 30 years of recorded output, largely trivialized as being the snot and panties guy from Aqualung, while their peers such as the thirty years dead Led Zeppelin are treated as a diety, although they can have that. I saw them both in their alleged heyday, and believe me it was not close, Tull vastly their live superior, and reliable on a nightly basis. They have been and do remain in my mind the most under valued commodity in the history of all rock music, not just prog. But if the alternative is to pay 300 dollars to see them in the stadium it has been very much for the better.


i knew you'd come tullist, it wouldn't have been the same without you :-)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: tullist/raymond on January 06, 2009, 07:54:52 AM
Thanks Groove, that was over yesterday mornings coffee, hopefully in 4 hours over tomorrow's I will have fresh visions to do a poor job of editing myself with. Bless you child!


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: tony the roundhead on January 06, 2009, 08:35:05 AM
It's not quite over yet - tonight at 8.30 on BBC4 it's a 1974 live recording of Tubular Bells.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Brittiania
Post by: PLW (Peter) on January 06, 2009, 09:46:36 AM


[ducks]


 :o :o incoming!!!!!!!  ::) ::)

enter, sir tullist of the jethro to correct you..................................
No way Groove, I and most Tull fiends would agree with the Kascade Kid. I grew up through prog rock and still love alot of it, and consider it in some hands to still be a highly viable form. But I don't like it when either the media or Ian himself lumps Tull together with Yes, Moody's, ELP and Genesis. I have liked much of what all those 4 have done, just not most of it and considered all of those 4 to have been way more guilty of prog's infamous excesses, although during those years I feel Tull received the bulk of the critical wrath. God they love that codpiece, cannot get enough of it. And I will agree it would have looked pretty dumb on Elvis Costello or Stiv Bator. Man you got to earn the right to wear the codpiece, even Ian only had 3 or 4 codpiece worthy years, 71-5. I also like alot of that punk crowd quietly while no one was looking remaining Tull fans, Ramones, Johnny Rotten and Nick Cave come to mind. OK Nick Cave ain't punk. I have been an observer of Rock with varying degrees of interest since Feb 7, 64 and have yet to see anything with the originality of Jethro Tull maintained over 41 years, deeply in and mostly way out of the bright lights. I have noted other potential contenders such as say, King Crimson or even Fairport or Steeleye and the best I can say is, nice try, next. I think Ian's codpiece, David Palmer's sex change and Ian's flag comments have received as much mainstream ink as about 30 years of recorded output, largely trivialized as being the snot and panties guy from Aqualung, while their peers such as the thirty years dead Led Zeppelin are treated as a diety, although they can have that. I saw them both in their alleged heyday, and believe me it was not close, Tull vastly their live superior, and reliable on a nightly basis. They have been and do remain in my mind the most under valued commodity in the history of all rock music, not just prog. But if the alternative is to pay 300 dollars to see them in the stadium it has been very much for the better.


You think they're quite good, then?


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Smithsinarazz on January 06, 2009, 01:36:27 PM
Hey. I know almost nowt about Prog Rock (well, more than I did the other day) and I've never been able to get into any kind of music where an item lasts much more than 5 minutes  - just call me a goldfish. But I loved this documentary. Is it possible to combine the subtlety and breadth of expression, and the technical virtuosity, of nineteenth-century symphonic music with the immediacy, freshness and melody of Rock? Goodness knows. But what a lovely aspiration!

I don't like nineteenth-century symphonic music either..goes on too long. Just call me a goldfish. Or did I say something like that earlier?  


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: PaulT on January 06, 2009, 03:52:46 PM

It's not quite over yet


It's prog rock - it's NEVER quite over yet... or "Tales from Topographic Oceans" would have been an EP.  ;)

IMO, the only true prog band left is King Crimson - in that it progressed throughout the years (and may do in the future, I hope). The Canadian Genesis outfit, while brilliantly reproducing the originals, is not progressing at all.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Steve on January 06, 2009, 07:38:40 PM
Is it possible to combine the subtlety and breadth of expression, and the technical virtuosity, of nineteenth-century symphonic music with the immediacy, freshness and melody of Rock?


Keith Emerson thought it was worth a try. I'm not sure if he got anywhere close.

I have his LP of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition somewhere. Haven't played it for decades. Don't s'pose I ever will now...



Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Sandra on January 06, 2009, 07:57:58 PM
I love Pictures from an Exhibition. Give it another try Steve, you might like it. ;D ;D ;D

I have just noted that tonight at 8.30 BBC4 has a live studio performance from 1974 of Mike Oldfield's composition Tubular Bells, which had according to the blurb, been acclaimed in the press as a unique achievement in popular music.

If it's the one I am thinking of I remember it being unique, but possibly not in a good way. ::) ::) ::)



Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on January 06, 2009, 08:03:08 PM
Just got time to walk the dog before it start!

Tubular Bells is one of the few albums I still play regularly from that era so it'll be interesting to see/hear it.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Chris on January 06, 2009, 09:10:57 PM
Is the Prog Britannia prog (!) that follows a repeat of the weekend show or another episode?
My BT Vision recorder has just burst into recording mode so it thinks that it's another episode....


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: PaulT on January 06, 2009, 09:15:37 PM
Well, it was only "side 1", but it was worth watching/listening - especially spotting the very young...

Mike Oldfield (obviously!)
Steve Hillage
Mick Taylor??
Fred Frith
A.N. Other guitarist
Pierre Moerlen & Morris Pert? on percussion
Mike Ratledge
a couple more unidentified keyboardists
Was it Marc Charig on oboe?
2 unnamed flautists

Very frustrating not to have the players credited at the end.

A period piece, but rather enjoyable - the first time I've seen Tubular Bells played live.

Must dig out "The Orchestral Tubular Bells" CD again...



Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: PhilB on January 07, 2009, 08:00:14 AM
I loved seeing a lot of my musical heroes of the early 70's on TV. You don't see Henry Cow on telly very often (never). I believe the lineup was as follows-
John Field - flute
Fred Frith - bass, guitar
John Greaves - keyboards
Steve Hillage - guitar
Tim Hodgkinson - keyboards
Karl Jenkins - oboe
Geoff Leigh - flute
Pierre Moerlen - percussion
Mike Oldfield - bass, guitar
Terry Oldfield - flute
Mike Ratledge - keyboards
Mick Taylor - guitar
Ted Speight - guitar, bass
Tom Newman - voice


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on January 07, 2009, 09:04:54 AM
Um, can I just say that that was one of the most boring things I've ever seen on telly (and I watch Big Brother at 3am when they're all in bed sleeping).

I'll stick to listening to the album.  ;D

Great musicians tho. But I like a bit of oomph in a live performance.  :o


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: MikeB (Mike) on January 07, 2009, 10:52:19 AM

IMO, the only true prog band left is King Crimson - in that it progressed throughout the years (and may do in the future, I hope).


I'd argue that Porcupine Tree class as a "proper" prog band, in that their sound has progressed through the years and continues to do so.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: PaulT on January 07, 2009, 11:32:15 AM
Cheers Mike - I've never really listened to much of Porcupine Tree - but will now have to do so...


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: abby (tank girl) on January 07, 2009, 11:50:26 AM
yes give them a go, they are excellent


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: peluche (Chris) on January 07, 2009, 11:58:33 AM

I'd argue that Porcupine Tree class as a "proper" prog band, in that their sound has progressed through the years and continues to do so.

Agreed. Some of their early stuff are prog masterpieces, for instance 'Lightbulb Sun' or 'Stupid Dream', however, get to some of their later stuff like 'In Absentia' or 'Deadwing' and you'll see some serious proggy moods.

BTW, I bought, played, and didn't like Fear of a Blank Planet ... maybe it needs another spin  :-\


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: abby (tank girl) on January 07, 2009, 12:00:27 PM


I'd argue that Porcupine Tree class as a "proper" prog band, in that their sound has progressed through the years and continues to do so.

Agreed. Some of their early stuff are prog masterpieces, for instance 'Lightbulb Sun' or 'Stupid Dream', however, get to some of their later stuff like 'In Absentia' or 'Deadwing' and you'll see some serious proggy moods.

BTW, I bought, played, and didn't like Fear of a Blank Planet ... maybe it needs another spin  :-\



in absentia is my fave actually


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: MikeB (Mike) on January 07, 2009, 12:03:08 PM


I'd argue that Porcupine Tree class as a "proper" prog band, in that their sound has progressed through the years and continues to do so.

Agreed. Some of their early stuff are prog masterpieces, for instance 'Lightbulb Sun' or 'Stupid Dream', however, get to some of their later stuff like 'In Absentia' or 'Deadwing' and you'll see some serious proggy moods.

BTW, I bought, played, and didn't like Fear of a Blank Planet ... maybe it needs another spin  :-\


I'll second heartily everything Chris said. Lightbulb Sun is possibly my favourite "early" Tree album and Stupid Dream, In Absentia and Deadwing are all fantastic.

Fear of a Blank Planet was completely underwhelming. It still hasn't grown on me, despite repeated listens over the last year.

It's also well worth going back into the really early stuff. There's a good double CD compilation called Stars Die: The Delirium Years, which is a retrospective of some of their early stuff.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: MikeB (Mike) on January 07, 2009, 12:05:30 PM



I'd argue that Porcupine Tree class as a "proper" prog band, in that their sound has progressed through the years and continues to do so.

Agreed. Some of their early stuff are prog masterpieces, for instance 'Lightbulb Sun' or 'Stupid Dream', however, get to some of their later stuff like 'In Absentia' or 'Deadwing' and you'll see some serious proggy moods.

BTW, I bought, played, and didn't like Fear of a Blank Planet ... maybe it needs another spin  :-\



in absentia is my fave actually


IA is definitely my favourite of the later (post-2000) stuff


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2009, 12:14:14 PM

It's also well worth going back into the really early stuff. There's a good double CD compilation called Stars Die: The Delirium Years, which is a retrospective of some of their early stuff.


Mentioning Delerium(!), you all know about the online record shop (http://www.delerium.co.uk/) of the same name?


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Ian_ on January 07, 2009, 12:27:57 PM

 Sorry to sound a negative note - though it's really meant as a note of caution to PaulT - I bought 'In Absentia' and to my ears it sounded just like another generic indie/metal band.... :-\


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Sir Robert Peel on January 07, 2009, 01:21:05 PM
I was fascinated by last night's programme on Soft machine, ELP, Yes et al.  I warmed to the self-effacing participants and did not doubt their sincerity or musicianship.

Let's remember that they were all young chaps trying to find something interesting to say.  While they admired the Beatles, Motown and the blues, they tried to do something with other broad influences - Vaughan Williams, Alice in Wonderland, Tolkein, the English landscape.  Unconfident when writing about love and girls, they chose different themes and concepts to hide behind.  Plus, they were stoned of course.

I think it was Ian Anderson who pointed out the greatest irony about the Young Pretenders from the punk movement.  They weren't just cocking a snook at (what they saw as) self indulgence - they had roots and influences too.  'John Lydon was a huge Steeleye Span fan', he said with astonishment.  Not only that - Lydon was an Abba-loving teenager with his roots in Irish music and he too was afraid to write about love and girls.  

Five out of five marks for a top programme.



Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: PLW (Peter) on January 07, 2009, 02:25:13 PM
Why is called "progressive" rock?


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: MikeB (Mike) on January 07, 2009, 02:29:26 PM


 Sorry to sound a negative note - though it's really meant as a note of caution to PaulT - I bought 'In Absentia' and to my ears it sounded just like another generic indie/metal band.... :-\


You must have been listening to a different album to me :P


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: jude on January 07, 2009, 02:29:48 PM

Why is called "progressive" rock?



http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp#definition

sums it up fairly neatly (in a prog-rock sort of way ;D)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Mr Cat (Lewis) on January 07, 2009, 05:46:08 PM
Having just witnessed Zappa Plays Zappa (superb), I'd nominate the late FZ as a true progressive rock act, in that he took conventional pop, doo-wop, rock and roll, country, blues, hard rock etc and fused it with classical/modern music.  Much of FZ's music has what have come to be identified as trademarks of prog: lengthy pieces, soloing, tricky time signatures, etc.



Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Mindwarper on January 07, 2009, 06:57:36 PM
I am a prog head among other interests. I didn't get to see the program and wonder if Gentle Giant, Happy the man, or National Health were mentioned? I kind of think that Tool has prog influences. Prog seems to have a bad rep ....that it is indulgent, has long incomprehensible songs, is technical over craft, emotionless, etc. But they were trying something new and had great chops. Not all of it has aged well, but some has. Gryphon still sounds fantastic.  And it was Gentle Giant's and Jethro Tull's traditional influences that led me to Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span. So I have very fond memories of prog and still listen to it. King Crimson is a great example of a prog band that evolved and continues to make fascinating music. Yes is an example of a band that can still play the old songs well, but seems to have lost the songwriting skills. The new materiel bores me, but live they are good. Rush is somewhere in between. I have some old favorites, but some of the newer material is strong. And they are great live. So long live prog!!!


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bob Barrows on January 07, 2009, 07:12:21 PM

Having just witnessed Zappa Plays Zappa (superb), I'd nominate the late FZ as a true progressive rock act,
No need. He's already considered as such ... see Jude's link


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: peterwales on January 07, 2009, 07:20:48 PM

Is it possible to combine the subtlety and breadth of expression, and the technical virtuosity, of nineteenth-century symphonic music with the immediacy, freshness and melody of Rock?


Keith Emerson thought it was worth a try. I'm not sure if he got anywhere close.

I have his LP of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition somewhere. Haven't played it for decades. Don't s'pose I ever will now...




I have it also- on vinyl somewhere, used to love it- but not played it in years, in fact the "original" composition by Mussorgsky is far better.
Did anybody see that 70's documentary of ELP on tour a few nights ago? Interesting as a 70's "period piece" of film making but didn't the band looked young? And also pompous, self-indulgent and ridiculous!


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: tony the roundhead on January 07, 2009, 07:28:25 PM

And also pompous, self-indulgent and ridiculous!

I though so too. Despite liking a lot of 70's progressive rock, I always detested ELP. I bought a couple of their remastered albums on cd a couple of years ago just to see if I'd got them wrong, but I don't think I did.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Mr Cat (Lewis) on January 07, 2009, 07:42:22 PM
Why is it that ELP and other 70's prog acts are constantly labelled "pompous, self indulgent" etc, when other acts of the same era seem to escape?

ELP et al were no more self-indulgent than for example Led Zeppelin, who are held up as the pinnacle of great rock music.  They were no more pompous than many 70's musicians.

In retrospect ELP were somewhat lacking in indulgence compared to the 40 minute plus suites of modern prog acts, like The Flower Kings or Dream Theater, and certainly they were no more indulgent than say club acts like Goldie or The Streets, with their pretentious concept albums about modern Britain or interminable electro loops..  


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: davidmjs on January 07, 2009, 07:51:58 PM
I have to admit to thinking ELP were pretty awful...rehashed classical music played bombastically with some bloody silly lyrics over the top.  Emerson was great in the Nice.  Greg Lake was great in Crimson.  Carl Palmer was a stupendous drummer.  But shove it all together and it all goes very wrong for me I'm afraid...

And I'm a big fan of some prog....Krimson and VdGG especially....both of whom are collectively and individually still making vibrant exciting new and yes, progressive, music.  Unlike most of the rest of their ilk...



Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on January 07, 2009, 09:12:53 PM
With my friends Val & Kez, we were the biggest ELP fans ever. We joined ELPAS (the Emmerson, Lake and Palmer Appreciation Society) and I still have the black & white photos they sent as part of the membership pack. When Val & I stayed with her sister in that London one summer hols, we even went to Curzon Street to see the ELPAS HQ.

I have to say looking back that they probably did seem a bit overblown, but then that was they way things were then. If Carl needed a few extra cymbals to re-create something they'd done in the studio, then they got them - OK so his drums weighed a ton but it was more Wow! than Eurgh! (or it was to us).I loved stuff like Still .... You Turn me On and Bitches Crystal and still play Pictures occasionally. Of course, when Punk came along we ditched ELP with the fickleness of yoof and launched straight into the Lurchers and the Clash!

I didn't have any problem with admitting to liking ELP tho until Jim Davidson started to spout about them being his fave band. ??? If anything was the kiss of death it was that...


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: davidmjs on January 07, 2009, 09:20:25 PM

Of course, when Punk came along we ditched ELP with the fickleness of yoof and launched straight into the Lurchers and the Clash!



...the Lurkers?  


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: malcolm weaver on January 07, 2009, 10:02:23 PM
I'm going to fly the flag for ELP and say without embarrassment, I think they were great then and still do.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on January 08, 2009, 10:39:40 AM


Of course, when Punk came along we ditched ELP with the fickleness of yoof and launched straight into the Lurchers and the Clash!

...the Lurkers?  

Doh! It was 32 years ago!  ::)

(Afterthought - from where I sit in work I can only see three people who are older than 32 so that means everyone else wasn't even born when Punk started. God I feel old today  :-\ )



Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bob Barrows on January 08, 2009, 11:04:03 AM
I loved ELP (one of the few concerts I went to in my yoof). Never could understand the criticism directed at them ... until the first side of Love Beach of course.  ;D
The second side has a couple gems. I still dig out Officer and Gentleman every so often.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: koho (Koen) on August 05, 2009, 03:52:33 PM
There was a rerun of this a few days ago on BBC 3 (or was it 4), and finally got to watch it. Good to see some of those bands on TV - I am reasonably new to a number of prog bands so all the footage was new to me. Still - what is prog? I am very much into King Crimson, also Procol Harum, and to a lesser extent (old) Genesis and Yes, as well as Caravan, but could never get into ELP. And what I saw of them made me understand the rise of punk! Interviews ... well, Phil Collins, hm. But Bruford was good though! Incredibly un-drummerlike.
I can understand that not every name band can be included, but why was a prog caricature like ELP (or a footnote like Arthur Brown) heavily featured, and stuff like, say, Floyd or The Move/ELO (or Strawbs) not at all?

It's funny though, unlike most rock bands from the era, I can think of very few deaths - most bands could still be revived (if they aren't already) in some line up or other. There's no Yes deaths, 2 recent passings of minor Crimson members - due to natural illnesses; 1 prehistoric Genesis drummer recently ... Procol Harum's only passing (BJ Wilson) was due to a car accident ... guess their eccentrics were channeled through their music and not via their lifestyle, then. It's healthy music! ;-)
Before Prog Britannica there was some other likeminded programme, Prog at the BBC or something like that, with old footage (lots of Whispering Bob Harris there). To my delight, it had Discipline-era King Crimson doing Frame By Frame. My wife said - "so what IS it you find atttractive in that noise?". In that regard my wife seemed to have morphed into my Dad from a few dacades ago when he heard Helter Skelter.
Well, Pop Idol will start soon, so she'll be happy. And it's Crimso for me on the headphones then.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: jude on August 05, 2009, 04:02:28 PM
Err can I just say that neither of the two deceased members of King Crimson were in any way minor.. Ian Wallace and Boz Burrell were both major contributors to the KC line-ups they were part of and went on to play with, especially in Ian's case, many of the top bands including Bob Dylan, The Travelling Wilburys, CSN&Y and Tim Buckley...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Wallace_(drummer)

It was a really great programme, but I guess the producers wanted to show the breadth of Prog and missed out some major contenders because they were already well documented.

 ;D ;D


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: koho (Koen) on August 05, 2009, 07:07:15 PM

Err can I just say that neither of the two deceased members of King Crimson were in any way minor..


You're totally right of course, I didn't mean minor as musicians obviously, but they were members for a short while weren't they ... not members you'd think of straight away when you think of key KC members, not featured on what are considered THE Crimson albums either. Mind you it doesn't help that I don't know the albums they featured on yet so that's probably entirely subjectively.

Still - why is it? Drugs are not normally associated with that genre even though the subject matter is often the most far-out you can think of; even though it was in that period of excessiveness, the 70s. In the long run the proggers end up as the real survivors.

It's true, a number of progbands are well documented, especially Floyd - as much as I love Floyd, I'd rather see King Crimson because, well, you just never see them.
So although it's far removed from their actual proggy years, I loved seeing KC doing a Discipline track. Tony Levin  :o ... SO not-standard as a rock band, or prog band for that matter. Fripp -seated, always seated- and Belew, both short cropped, suit and tie even, looking like lawyers on a hobby project.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: PaulT on August 07, 2009, 02:55:21 PM
Sad news on Toyah's website - her father, Beric, died at the end of July.  Robert Fripp's diary on dgmlive.com also refers to Beric's passing... RIP   :(


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Shankly (Peter) on September 09, 2009, 02:01:59 PM
I must admit to liking ELP - along with Bridgwit, I sort of went off them around the time of punk, but, with age, saw the error of my ways - I don't suppose I play them that often now compared to Yes or (Gabriel era) Genesis but they were great at the time.

I am horrified by the Jim Davidson revelation though - I'm not sure if I will recover from that blow!


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Barry on September 09, 2009, 02:07:43 PM

I am horrified by the Jim Davidson revelation though - I'm not sure if I will recover from that blow!


To be fair, he's put his money where his mouth is and sponsored tours by Greg Lake and the last tour by The Nice.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bob Barrows on September 09, 2009, 02:35:54 PM


I am horrified by the Jim Davidson revelation though - I'm not sure if I will recover from that blow!


To be fair, he's put his money where his mouth is and sponsored tours by Greg Lake and the last tour by The Nice.
How about a clue for those of us who don't know who Jim Davidson is?  :)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Shankly (Peter) on September 09, 2009, 02:38:27 PM



I am horrified by the Jim Davidson revelation though - I'm not sure if I will recover from that blow!


To be fair, he's put his money where his mouth is and sponsored tours by Greg Lake and the last tour by The Nice.
How about a clue for those of us who don't know who Jim Davidson is?


An extremely unfunny, racist 'comedian'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Davidson_(comedian)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: davidmjs on September 09, 2009, 02:38:48 PM



I am horrified by the Jim Davidson revelation though - I'm not sure if I will recover from that blow!


To be fair, he's put his money where his mouth is and sponsored tours by Greg Lake and the last tour by The Nice.
How about a clue for those of us who don't know who Jim Davidson is?


He's a rubbish English 'comedian'.  With, er, very, um, conservative views.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: quodlibet (Ian) on September 09, 2009, 02:45:08 PM
Quote


An extremely unfunny, racist 'comedian'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Davidson_(comedian)


& contrary to popular opinion  even the S.A.S, with whom he claims a close relationship, can't stand him. So we live in hope  ;)



Edit: Tidied quote. Paul


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bob Barrows on September 09, 2009, 02:49:15 PM
OK, and what was the revelation?


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Barry on September 09, 2009, 02:53:16 PM
Presumably that he's an ELP fan - gasp!  Shock horror!


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Shankly (Peter) on September 09, 2009, 02:53:33 PM

OK, and what was the revelation?


That his favourite band was ELP! (Shock horror)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Shankly (Peter) on September 09, 2009, 02:54:28 PM
Blimey - we both posted at the same time and used the same expression. How spooky is that!

(Well, not very really!)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Barry on September 09, 2009, 02:55:02 PM
Great minds, obviously  ;)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bob Barrows on September 09, 2009, 02:56:22 PM
It was a secret? I've finally done a successful google (lots of "Jim Davidsons" out there - adding "comedian" to the search string helped enormously) and found many references to him and ELP ...


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: jude on September 09, 2009, 05:42:14 PM
Why so shocked that a comedian likes a rock band? Aren't they allowed to? ???


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Andy on September 09, 2009, 06:03:29 PM
The opening line of Karn Evil #9 - "Welcome Back My Friends..." - stirs my blood. If they did nothing else, they did that one, great, track.

Actually, "Hoedown" is darn good too.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Goaty on September 09, 2009, 06:10:11 PM

The opening line of Karn Evil #9 - "Welcome Back My Friends..." - stirs my blood. If they did nothing else, they did that one, great track.

Actually, "Hoedown" is darn good too.


Worked for me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_Back_My_Friends_to_the_Show_That_Never_Ends..._Ladies_and_Gentlemen

If I weren't so miffed right now, I'd be salvaging that from a box upstairs and setting up the turntable...


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: greglin (Gregg) on September 09, 2009, 06:14:15 PM

"Still you turn me on" is rather good.

Pity about Jerusalem though - although I do like the Nice's version of America.

I were brought up on 35 mnute doodling tracks - albeit with more rocky overtones - but even I found ELP too overblown and self important - so I toddled off back to King Crimson.

I did like the series - as a sort of "bloody hell, did we really listen to that" retrospective - but it was quite narrow in its points of reference.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Goaty on September 09, 2009, 06:22:25 PM
Lucky Man was ok too.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: fat Billy(Bill) on September 09, 2009, 06:37:55 PM
I saw EPL at wembly in 1974, and damn good they were too


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Barry on September 09, 2009, 07:06:35 PM

The opening line of Karn Evil #9 - "Welcome Back My Friends..."


Being pedantic it's not - it's halfway through 1st Impression.  

The opening line is "Cold and misty morning, I heard a warning borne in the air"

However, using that excerpt as a concert opener which they did when I saw them did indeed stir the blood!


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: tullist/raymond on September 09, 2009, 07:30:26 PM
I thought Just Take A Pebble was an excellent track but have not heard it in 30 or more years. Additionally I thought their take on Jerusalem was the prettiest, if not the best thing I ever heard from them, Elgar right?, but I don't have several versions to compare it against as a native of England might. Saw them in 74 and opening for Tull sometime in the early nineties I think, both were well short of brilliant or even very good. Having said that in that Isle of Wight movie i would say the closest thing to punk was ELP! I have litlle doubt they were capable of being excellent, but neither time I saw them. I do think history has been unnecessarily unkind to them. But it also always bothered me that Tull were considered their bedfellows, ditto Genesis who I have seen in excellent form live, but they got every bit of credit to which they were entitled and then some, same thing with Gabriel who I did see in 77,8 and 80, very good to brilliant each time, but nevertheless, overpraised. I am less than floored by much of his catalogue, much of it has not worn well, (for instance his first solo record is seen to be a masterpiece and I think most of it is **** and Solisbury Hill has been played a few thousand too many times) and he was given way too much credit for his allegedly ground breaking forays into world music. I'll grab my shield and rhythm stick.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Bridgwit (Bridget) on September 09, 2009, 10:21:24 PM
I'll be there!
I'll be there!
I will be there!

Ah - those heady days when me and my mates in school could quote the whole of Karn Evil 9. And whole Monty Python sketches. And we'll roll about laughing every time  :-\ Some people are easily pleased.

The only ELP track I had issues with was Benny the Bouncer.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Steve with the black dog on September 09, 2009, 10:30:08 PM


The only ELP track I had issues with was Benny the Bouncer.


Surely not.

Benny looked at Sidney:
Sidney stared right back in his eye.
Sidney chose a switchblade
and Benny got a cold meat pie.


For me these lyrics and the evocative music rank for emotional connection with Lucky Man.... ;D  I did like the piano sound though ;)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Paul on September 09, 2009, 11:17:07 PM

I thought their take on Jerusalem was the prettiest, if not the best thing I ever heard from them, Elgar right?


No Parry.

Paul


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Shankly (Peter) on September 10, 2009, 07:43:55 AM

Why so shocked that a comedian likes a rock band? Aren't they allowed to? ???


It's not that, it's more horror that such a horrible, unfunny racist is revealed to be a fan - not that it really matters, but there's a vague feeling that it reflects badly on us.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: jude on September 10, 2009, 08:12:46 AM


Why so shocked that a comedian likes a rock band? Aren't they allowed to? ???


It's not that, it's more horror that such a horrible, unfunny racist is revealed to be a fan - not that it really matters, but there's a vague feeling that it reflects badly on us.


well it's hardly the band's fault is it?  :(


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: davidmjs on September 10, 2009, 08:21:13 AM



Why so shocked that a comedian likes a rock band? Aren't they allowed to? ???


It's not that, it's more horror that such a horrible, unfunny racist is revealed to be a fan - not that it really matters, but there's a vague feeling that it reflects badly on us.


well it's hardly the band's fault is it?  :(


I'm tempted to say, no, of course not, but the music was....but I won't.

I never quite understand how a band with 3 such amazingly talented musicians in them created such a mess of a sound.  Never saw them live, but I did once (accidentally, I like to think) witness the horror that was ELPowell.  Poor old Cozy.  No idea what he'd done to deserve that.....

Saw Lake a few years ago, and he put on a truly storming show (in Tunbridge Wells!)....


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Shankly (Peter) on September 10, 2009, 08:26:02 AM



Why so shocked that a comedian likes a rock band? Aren't they allowed to? ???


It's not that, it's more horror that such a horrible, unfunny racist is revealed to be a fan - not that it really matters, but there's a vague feeling that it reflects badly on us.


well it's hardly the band's fault is it?  :(


No, of course not - it's just that when you find out that someone who you despise actually has similar taste to you (in one area at least)... well, I'd just rather wish he didn't really.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: jaypeter (Peter) on September 10, 2009, 08:41:02 AM
There are far worse angles to this discussion; Nick Griffin and the BNP have been trying to use Folk in their publicity.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Shankly (Peter) on September 10, 2009, 08:53:29 AM

There are far worse angles to this discussion; Nick Griffin and the BNP have been trying to use Folk in their publicity.


I read about that - hasn't Steve Knightley had to fight to stop them using 'Roots' in one of their broadcasts?


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Barry on September 10, 2009, 09:20:27 AM

Saw Lake a few years ago, and he put on a truly storming show (in Tunbridge Wells!)....


Yep - that was the tour that JD sponsored.


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: davidmjs on September 10, 2009, 09:27:25 AM


Saw Lake a few years ago, and he put on a truly storming show (in Tunbridge Wells!)....


Yep - that was the tour that JD sponsored.


Yikes  :o ::)


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: Nick on September 10, 2009, 10:58:18 AM
It's probably best now to move away from posts concerning who in the media likes what bands, before the discussion becomes any more politically oriented.

Thank you  :)

Nick


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: greglin (Gregg) on September 11, 2009, 01:20:48 PM

Yep - let's get back to good old mindless drivel about music.............

I listened to Genesis ( the proper pre '74 genesis) last night, and Barclay james harvest, and Crimson - was just like being back in student halls. Wonderfully obscure lyrice - and doodling ad infinitem.

where are my flares and joss sticks..................where's my hair gone????


Title: Re: Prog Rock Britannia
Post by: peterwales on September 26, 2009, 11:44:02 PM
I've just come back from Newcastle, from a work-related conference. Whilst there, this song "Five Bridges" kept going through my head, which I remembered was by the "Nice" and was dedicated to the city of Newcastle. It was part of the "Five Bridges" suite, a colloboration between the Nice and the the Sinfonia of London orchestra, and was commisioned for the Newcastle Arts Festival, and was then recorded live in 1969. I've had the album for decades but not played it, probably not since the 80's or so. Spur of the moment, I went into the Newcastle branch of HMV, and sure enough they had a solitary CD of it left, (as they did of the Unthanks new album). Bought it, and played it again, as I drove over the "3rd. Bridge" this morning, and then south down the A1.
Apart from the "Newcastle" local effect, I've forgottten how great that album, and the Nice's music, was in those far-off days;(40 years now!)- powerfull, exciting, accomplished, atmospheric, experimental, "cutting edge" and also very moving at times. Much better than the pompous, pretentious stuff Keith Emerson later got into with ELP- although I liked them at the time too.