TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Hi Mark. Just wondering...can you actually "switch off' and just listen to - and enjoy - a CD? Or do you find yourself thinking about/analysing the technical aspects?

Hi Ces,

Good question, and one that gets asked a lot.

I used to, but I haven't for years. It's a state of mind, and has become a lifestyle.

Mark.

Fair call, sir....so which engineers/producers do you most admire?...Who makes you nod the old noggin and mutter "Respec''? ;D

Do you realise you have now opened Pandoras box?

Jimmy Page, as both engineer and producer.

Quincy Jones for his massive talent in every way.

Peter Gariel for all he does and Daniel Lanois as composer, producer, engineer and guitar player.

The Glimmer Twins, Tchad Blake, Brian Eno, John Wood, Eddie Kramer, Alek Sadkin...

Visionaries like Chris Blackwell and Joe Boyd.

Miles Davis for everything he did and said!

Gus Dudgeon for his talent, enthuesiasm and massive contribution to music.

Tony Visconti, Glyn Johns, Keith Harwood, Tim Freese Green's work with Talk Talk,

Trevor Horn for sheer uniqueness and slick.

Prince-small man, massive talent,

Tod Rungren,

Martin Rushent for creating two new sounds across two decades, that still hold up!

David Lord, Rupert Hine, Chas Jankel, Chris kimsey, Flood, Head, Pete Schwier, Mutt Lang, Chris Thomas, John Brand, Mick Glossop, Ed from Ozric Tentacles to name but a few! Oh, and of course, Phil Spector.

Mark.

Is that all?...Tsk....talk about "tunnel vision' :-\ ;D

Particuarly glad to see to you listing Jimmy Page, BTW...Everyone accepts he was a tremendous guitarist but I also think he was a great producer/engineer. Such a BIG sound.



But anyways...from the talent listed.......what are your top ten albums (not necessarily for the music as such, but the production/engineering quality)?

Hi Ces,

How could I forget George Martin?

Mark ???

..and Alan Parsons!

Yeh, Eye in the Sky is quite amazing!

Do you realise we could go on like this for ages?

Mark

And, John Cornfield and John Leckie! If you have read this, Sorry John! ???

Yes - didn't Alan produce Dark Side Of The Moon (although credited to Pink Floyd in some places)

:)

Wot no BRIAN WILSON !!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o

Here we go!  ;D

Did someone mention BRIAN WILSON?

Yes, yes, yes, I knew this would happen... Brian Wilson too. Been into the Beach Boys since I was 15 or so.

Mark.

"On The Bus"!  ;D

Andy, Alan Parsons engineered Dark Side Of The Moon, however, Pink Floyd produced it.

Mark

p.s. was going to put Dave Gilmour down -may have forgotten Pete Thownsend also? ???

Yup, On The Bus indeed!

Ces, you've really started something here! :o

I am currently listening to Tom Waits: Real Gone.

There's another one!

Ces, the more I think about this one, the more difficult it is to narrow things down to 10. There simply are so many genres that mean different things. Music is for moods. I love so many things musical, and we haven't even gone down the classical or roots/reggae side of things yet!

Also, when you talk about production, it's a very complex issue. The credited producer may be acting in a more organisational or clerical side of the proceedings. I'm sure that Dave Gilmour was at the production helm of Dark Side Of The Moon, despite it being credited to Pink Floyd? Sometimes, the credit is purely to appease the sharing of royalties fairly amongst the group. Sometimes the producer says exactly what goes (Trevor Horn, Peter Waterman etc.), whereas Chris Blackwell is a catalist for gathering the right people and writing the cheques. (Thank you Colin, your skills are recognised as a producer)

Mark

P.S.Yes, there you go...Tom Waits! :o

Fair call, Mark! ;D....I suppose it was a bit of a daunting task!

Chinn-Chapman - now they were a proper production outfit!

Didn't they produce The Sweet, or was that wassis name from RAk records?

Mark

Micky Most! Of the same ilk to that of Chinn and Chapmman!

Chinn and Chapman produced Sweet, Mud, Suzy Quattro, and probably a load of other 70s groups.

Paul

Chris Lord-Alge, Tom Lord-Alge and Bob Clearmountain!! :o

Those are the boys! I suppose you realise that this time last year there was much talk of taking folk down the "glam' route? I know Hughes,for example, took to wearing a spangly leotard and huge platform boots....it was quite the talk of the Queen's Head.

Maybe the Darkness will influence the next Fairport offering? 8)

Ces, Hmmm.. I fear not. ;)

Could rock things up a little, don't you think?

Definitely time to lay down the fiddles and pick up the Flying Vs, if you ask me ;D

Alvin Pegg, Simon Quatro, Noddy Conway....****dex cardies and a mandolin-led version of "Tiger Feet'


I have seen the future, my friend.....

;D

You might have something here! Nothing could be as strange as seeing Simon Nicol wearing a Afro wig, playing Matty Groves reggae style, heh?

Trouble is The singer from The Sweet died, that only leaves Noddy Holder or Suzie Quatro to guest at Croppers?... ;)

Which should we go for?

There is always Gary Glitter. he "lived" just down the road, used to see him in one of our local gigs. I guess he would be out of the question? :-\

Suzi ... unless of course there's ever a Christmas Croppers, then I'll go for Noddy  ;D

Roy Wood did IWICBCED at Croppers in August! 8)

Sorry, flying fingers twisted up this morning. Ap did inded engineer DSoTM. In fact I heard the quad mix at his house if I can remember back that far.

Sorry Andy,
I don't get yer banter... ???

 I believe it was something about cabbage-crates over the briney?
 

Caribou .... on the grass, eating the croquet hoops!

 ;D ;D ;D

Sorry Andy,

With a rush of blood, I hear you! Sorry, it was late, too much gin what!

Really! You knew the might AP, and have been to Dave Glamour's house to listen to mixes? Engineer, producer  and Guitar envy - big time!

Quad? Hmmmm... Early equivalent to 5:1 surround. I've got a feeling Pete Townsend developed the quad system at Eel Pie? Never really took off. Quardaphenia did though!

Mark

One of the best albums the Who produced, better than Tommy.

Quadraphonic hi-fi never really took off, as you say. I think it was a problem with severeral different competing systems, and a high price tag.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I agree, and it's a concept album! Amazing, not a duffer on it? My stand out track would have to be Bell Boy, standing up for the rights of the proletariat!

Paul, is that a Brian May signature Guild I see you with in the pic? Got the AC30 (Valtronix) also heh? MXR Phaser? Echo Plex?...

Mark

Bell Boy certainly shows off Keith Moon's vocal talents  ;D

My favourite has to be Punk and the Godfather. I have the full score, and showed the bass line to my son (who is a bassist) his jaw dropped.

I'm afraid it is not the Guild, but the Burns, Guild is out of my price range. Excellent guitar for the price, bought for the range of tones it can produce. I have the ADT60 Valvetronix. Brilliant amplifier, got all the effects you could want on it, let down by a toy pedal to go with it. They've now brought out a better one.

Paul

I was working as a receptionist at Command Studios in Piccadilly when one of the directors there was pushing quadrophonic sound. Lots of people came to listen but I don't think many bought............. Went all quiet it did

Jude

Wow, Jude, you were there at the cutting edge of what is now a market leader. Amazing story. What clients did the studio cater for while you were there? Did Pete Townsend make any appearances?

Mark

I take it you've heard the SACD 5:1 mix of DSoTM? It's really very good indeed. See here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008CLOA/qid=1108925061/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-1974054-1860628) for the amazon entry.

If you mean produced by sound i would have to differ with you there Paul. I thought for years there was always something not quite right about the sound on that one. Even after hearing it on many different systems and in many different formats it always sounded under produced. Then a while back i read an interview with Roger Daltrey where he said if he could ever go back and change any Who album it would be Quadrophenia, because his vocals are awash with echo all the way through the album and there is no way they can be wiped off now.

Andy,

No.... 5:1, I've not got into that yet! It's bag of worms for me. It seems like it could be an incredible possibility. However, I do have some major reservations. Most people have not got a clue about setting up their Hi-fis, let alone getting the phase of the speaker’s right. I hear so many systems that sound ****!

I walked into the very good Tool Box shop in my "local" town Colyton, and nearly fell over with dizziness from hearing the shop speakers set either side of the counter, obviously out of phase! On telling the shop assistant "Your speakers are out of phase", "Cabbage crates over the briney" would have induced more of a reaction!! ??? Straight over his head! By the look on his face, I realised I should move on, rapidly.

My one and only experience of 5:1 was mixing the Fairport Live at The Anvil DVD. It was a huge learning curve, having spent some months researching all of the issues relating to 5:1. and then having only two days two mix it! The conclusion that I came to, having spoken to many people experienced with mixing 5:1, and having read a load of literature on the subject, was to mix it basically in stereo. The only 5:1 additions were the hall ambience being placed in the rear L&R. Some sub on the bass and floor tom. Leaving the centre channel clear and not used at all. It was all mixed using stereo monitors and a sub box, so that I could sum the 5 channels to stereo. There were some spacey echoes from Ric's fiddle flying around at some point (Just like Ric). I think it worked o.k. Have you heard it?

The other reason I have not got into it is that the room and equipment you need in order to do it fully, needs to be huge. Until I win the lottery (that I never do), it will not happen. Anyway, what's wrong with mono, I love it, it's my friend? We spend most of our lives listening to what is essentially mono sound, that the only reason it's stereo is because we have two ears.

 ;)

Mark

Mark! What a wonderful line. You can have ALL the wine gums   :D

Hi Anji,

Ta luv, can I have some red and black ones please? Never enough of those!

Strange as It may sound, what model phone do you own?

Mark

I've heard (and seen) the anvil dvd. Maybe I'm unlucky but the sound on mine isn't that great, to be frank. The applause has a hollow, phased sound that just sounds very odd indeed. The songs are ok, as I recal, but the applause grates every time. Sorry.Probably a result of only two days to mix it, as you say.

I think you underestimate the ability of people to set up 5:1. Those who choose to buy the kit do tend to set it up better than a shop assistant.  My kit isn't necessarily the best, but was a worthwhile £n spent down at Richer Sounds and Spatial Audio in Tottenham Court Road.

What's wrong with mono? Sigh. Well, in my humble opinion, what's wrong is that it's a single sound source and even the best speakers will cause instruments and voices to be lost.

The 5:1 mix of DSoTM is darned brilliant and the separation is spectacular.

Fashions change, of course, with early stereo you got an entirely different mix to that you'd get now. The early sterophonic Beatles are very much two mono tracks run through either side. I remember hearing The Impressions (before Curtis Mayfield hit it really big)  in stereo for the first time and falling over with joy at such a great sound, with each singer in their own place across the room at and between the speakers.

Bugger 5.1. I'm listening to Tom Waits "Dead And Lovely" from "Real Gone" on a Tesco 15 quid CD player and it's a great song isn't it?







Barry says:  Modified to remove offensive language

Sorry Randle, I used produced in the wrong sense. Should have used released.

I think it contains Townshend's best writing, and shows up the musicianship of the others, especially Entwhistle, who I think was actually a better musician than Townshend.

Paul

(beaming)
Carey calls me "pet"
David Hughes called me "poppet" (once)
Cocker Freeman calls me all sorts of lovely geograpical features
and Mark Tucker has called me "luv"  :D

I have a Sony Ericsson T630 (I think. I'm a girl...so how can I possibly be sure?  :D  It's silver.   ;D )

now...back on topic  ;)
When you've time to spare, I'd like to hear what you think of the work of Peter Hammill.

 :)

Crikey, you're asking me to dredge my memory here. Remember I was only on the reception during the day so mostly I only got to see the debris of the night before. I remember Robert Fripp and Keith Tippett and the extraordinary Frank Perry who was a percussionist who insisted on playing nude (that caused a bit of a kerfuffle) recording Septober Energy. Roxy Music were there as well somewhere. Oh and Donny Osmond plus all his little fans I remember that. Stud. Their manager was one of the directors too. So they were often around. I best remember the engineers Ray and Andy Hendriksen and Phil Leaver the Disc Cutter.....
I'll have to have a google and see who else was around.
Jude

Andy,

I remember now. The Anvil live recording audience was mastered out of phase. Unfortunately the video editor who mastered the final copy screwed that part up totally! I think he shifted a file a phase too far and didn't realise it! The files that were supplied were fine. Not my recording though, just mix, but what can you do when it's out of your hands?
I know the mixes that left my studio were cool.

Re: production issues... A job like the Anvil recording is flaky when it comes to production issues. It was a commission by a video company. No one person is there to see the product through. With live recordings often you have a separate recording engineer, mix studio and mix engineer, video/sound editing studio and engineer and complex mastering issues. There are many things that can go very wrong. In the case of the Anvil, as I now remember, things did go wrong. Funny how my selective memory was how it sounded in the studio. I was very depressed and only listened to the final DVD once.

There are two FC DVDs and both as I remember had huge problems with issues relating to sound. The other that Rob Bravinor mixed had very similar issues to that of the Anvil. Tight budgets, and no acting producer!

Mark

I used to like Roxy Music. Have you worked with them Mark?

Paul

Hi Paul,

No, but I used to like some of the singles.

Mark

It's bleedin' irritating. I ripped the dvd audio to play in the car and ended up editing as much of the audience out of it as I could.

5:1 doesn't suit all music or even genres - no point in listening to a solo artist in a 5:1 mix, as you say. But when it works, it really works. Tom Trauberts Blues would gain nowt.

Andy,

I  couldn't agree more - It's really ******  irritating!

Final point on Quadraphenia: The content is more important than the sound. As with any recording. Capturing that is half the job. But we can't dismiss those older and some, less hi-fi friendly recordings as ****! We/I still play James Brown because it kicks. Not for it's great sound. The same with some Aretha and plenty of others, especially wid da blues?

Jude,

You have been around! Donny Osmond heh? And two disk cutters talked about in one day!! :D

Mark

seeing as how mark has just had the last word on Quadrophenia can i just say that i saw the who when q came out at the kings hall belle vue in manchester and they used quadrophonic sound for the live show.  it was a nightmare we heard the sea lapping gently on brighton beach but not too much else
 instead of the speakers on the stage they were positioned around the hall and depending on what was playing out of the set near you, that was what you heard
  they never did that again on tour,
  yes the ox was probably a better musician but townshend was the genius but not too shabby as a guitar hero






one liner? ill tell you about one liners boyo

Coo yes I should say! Just wish I could remember it all better. I was there for about 6 months or less in 1972 so a while ago

jude

Anji,

Peter Hammill, he of the Vadergraffe Generator fame? I believe they have reformed? Myslef and Ed from the group Flook were talking about him just the other day! he's also from Bath you know?

I have enjoyed a lot of his stuff. Quite dark though, but I like a bit dark! ;)

Not listened anything of his for years other than from a bloody great compilation that David Hughes did for me recently, which had some of his stuff on it.

 ::)

Mark

p.s. I'm working on the phone call sign.

Don't know about actually reforming, but VdGG are playing at the RFH in May.....tickets on eBay currently around the £450.00 mark, I'm led to believe  :o And,   :D   , no, mine's not for sale.

I've loved Peter Hammill's stuff for - blimeyheck - 29 years! And the last - Incoherence - is strong and tender and powerful and oh! beyond vocabulary.  8)

Some PH on a compilation from David Hughes, eh?   [;-)   He has exceptionally good taste, don't you think?  :)

Lovely re phone call sign (erm..I'm assuming that's bigspeak for a "ringtone"?); thank you.

re: Lovely re phone call sign (erm..I'm assuming that's bigspeak for a "ringtone"?); thank you.

No, I just have moments of distraction and illiteracy! :(

There'll be a pint of that in Pub Chatter....

 :)

Hi Mark,
you should have a copy of Mark Gillespie´s new DVD and CD in the post somewhen later this week. Give that a listen  :D

Hi Ulla,

Thank you, that's very thoughtful of you! I'll look forward to it.

Mark.

Morning, Mark!

Listening to the tap dancing on "Solution" from David Hughes' "I Can Explain" got me wondering....

.....I couldn't think of any other songs which have dancing - tap or otherwise - in them, although I'm sure there are some.

Any ideas?

 :)

Hi Anji,

I know, a rarity, like talent itself. thinks?...

Mark

Singin' in the rain
Good Mornin'
Make 'em laugh

..and that's just three songs that wouldn't be the same if there wasn't the dance in 'em.

(Watched a restored version of the film again tonight - bliss)

   I reckon the best ever version of Singin' in the Rain was Paddington's  :)

I'm just listening to a Fred Astaire album.(pretty old one)

with Fred (vocals,tap dancing),
Charlie Shavers(trumpet),
 Flip Phillips(tenor),
 Oscar Peterson (Piano),
 Barney Kessel (guitar)
Ray Brown (Bass)
 Alvin Stoller (Drums)

Ooh t'int 'alf good

Jude (I think we need a bopping smiley)

Tap dancing on record??????. Reminds me of ventriloquism on the radio kind of pointless.

No, that is pointless, Randle. there is only one "Singing In The "Rain"/ Even before John Martyn and mates. Dooby doop doo, dooby, dooby doop doo..............

Nah, Fred's tap dancing is spectacular on record. There are a few unexplained holes and worn out bits on the disc, however

Jude

What on earth was I doing posting on here at five in the morning! It doesn't even make sense! I've got no idea what I was trying to say, Randle, by the way.

I can't even remember doing that!

Cocker Freeman. 5AM? You should've been tucked up snugly in your bed, I think.  :)

Presumably at the end of *that* session you mentioned elsewhere, Cocker! ;) ::) ::)

Cocker, 5AM! session!

Next thing you'll be telling me is that he was drinking at that time  :o :o ;)

shurely not miss moneypenny  (sincere apols for the accent  ;D)


BTW to bring this back on topic, 
now listening to..........Fairport - Who Knows ? 1975  Can we have some more please Mr Pegg?