TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Mark, oh guru of the tracks,

I heard a tale that you had recorded the "ambience" of Woodworm Studios before it was sold off by the Peggs so that it could be added to later Fairport recordings.

There have also been tales of people recording desert and canyon ambiences to add that extra special something to studio recordings.

Please tell me how you record an ambience, and how it can be used in the studio - as technical as you like, I have a translator who sits near me at work  ;D

Many thanks

Keith

Hi Keith,

Thanks for your question.

With the advent of digital technology, also came the possibility to record ambience, or acoustic spaces and environments. You do this by playing the sound of a gun shot, or a sweep tone ( a sign wave tone that is swept from 20hz to 20,000khz- each ways of generating broadband noise across the frequency spectrum) loudly through high quality speakers and record this process by high quality microphones in the room you wish to sample. There are a few software programmes and hardware units that allow this principle to be applied. I believe, "Convolution"  is the term for this type of reverb? Having recorded either the gun shot, or sweep tone, (both give different results) the original gun shot, or sweep tone can then be removed mathematically from the original recording, leaving only the reverb. You then save these samples as patches and use them in programmes such a Altiverb or Space Designer for sinthetically producing the feeling of real space and reverbs. Yamaha and Sony each have hardware based devices that work to this principle.

The benifit is that it allows me to have an armoury of sounds and acoustic spaces no matter where I work. I can have very usable copies of old valve EMT plate reverbs, tape echos etc. etc. that are very rare, expensive and need lots of space, love, attention and money to keep them working...They can be amazing and offer a new concept to producers and engineers, but often, as usual, there is still no alternative to a real room - just like those musicians, they still do a better job than any pre-programmed midi or digital replication. But there is a lot of exciting equipment around now!

I hope this answers your question?

Regards,

Mark.

P.S. What are all these smiley things and how are you meant to use them? ???

They are there to re-inforce messages and clarify tone of voice, etc.  You seem to have worked out how to use them, oh wizard of the knobs  ;) ;D

I think you just found out Liam. ;D

Mark

Talking about digital recreations. I have a Valvetronix modelling amplifier, if I set it to Vox AC30, I can't tell the difference between it, and the AC30 I had when I was a youngster (except it doesn't go wrong as much). Can you, as a proffesional, tell if something has been recorded using a modelling amp, or the real thing, in a blind test. Or whether Maart is playing a real Les Paul, or his Variax?

Paul

Great answer - yes it does.

Hi Paul,

The amp you have probably uses the very same technology. I had a session a few months ago, where the young band came in with some amps that really sounded dreadfull. I'd just bought a new amp simulating plugin, so I decided to use it. I fed the two guitar players the mic'd sounds coming off their own amps, fed to the headphones. However, in the control room, I had built two new sounds from di feeds on the the electric guitars. These di's fed the guitar simulator. It saved the session. They can sound amazing, but at the end of the day, I believe, it's what you do, more than what you have that makes a difference. I saw Maart's thread on the Variax he uses, again, similar technology.


Mark.

Hi ,

I thought I would mention that I'm currently planning to sampling Beer caves, near me in Devon. There are miles and miles of chambers ranging from 10x8' rooms to huge cavernous spaces. I think I'll pick a really hot summer day where the cool of the cave beckons. Also, the possibility of Exeter Cathedral YTBC?

Mark

 Wow! Are there really beer caves?  :D Is that anything like Ken Dodds treacle mines in Knotty Ash?
 Might be a great incentive to overcome my claustrophobia....

or the snuff quarries & the jam butty mines ;)

Couple of other suggestions for sampling venues... Truro Cathedral, Herm Island (east coast) - just sea, air & birds.

Cheers

Hi Mark!

Have you ever heard the cd In the Caves of the Iron Mountain by bassist Tony Levin?  He and a few other great musicians recorded it in.... a cave!  It's got a great sound and great tunes, I highly recommend it.   

Annette,  armchair spelunker

;)

I know Exeter Cathedral is a nice "space" to sing in, having done so.

The most amazing "space" ("ambience") I've ever sung in is St Mark's, Venice.  If you can get that one ....

 You can't just let it go at that, Barry; you were singing in one of the most remarkable man-made places on God's great Earth ? ! Please tell us more. What were you singing?

  Ian, in awe and jealous.  :)

Touring with a choir from Chislehurst and Sidcup Grammer School (my old school) where a friend and contemporary was then head of music.  When arranging the tour he told the agents that he wanted to do two market square concerts and sing mass in a local church.  For the local church, they came back with St Mark's, Venice!  After asking the obvious question "What?  The St Marks Venice?" "Yes Sir - can't miss it, big square, pigeons, golden horses, bell tower") he elected to sing entirely English sacred music (Tallis, Gibbons .... can't remember what else).

There is a remarkable "dwell" on the sound, so after you finish, you can hear what it sounded like.

It was lovely to get a standing ovation from the Nuns at the end of the service, too.

The musical event of my life so far .... one I'll never forget.  (Mind you, I couldn't resist belting out the start of the 'Deus in adiutorium meum intende' from the Monteverdi Vespers)

But this is totally off topic .....

Hi Mark,
good to see you here in this nice place.
A personal question: How is Molly?

Hi Barry  :)
          sorry for taking things off topic. But thankyou. What a lovely experience....

              Ian  [;-)

Hi Ulla,

Molly is right by my side and say's thanks for the Tiara, I'm verry well and happy.

Mark & Molly

P.S. I have replied to a number of the messages and my replies seem to have gone astray and not made the forum?  :'(

Men and technology ...... :P :o ;D

Hi Ulla,

Well I was taking my time at something, which most men get accused of failing to do...

Apparently, it's a time out problem with the forum message element?

Anyway, how are you? Still doing some promoting in Germany?

Mark.

Been reading this thread with great interest. I've also read your Recording Column in Acoustic Mag.

I was interested in your comments about Bert J's use of low action. Maart has told me he always prefers a higher action and Stevie RV apparently had a very high action for tone. Does it really make that much difference, and if so why would BJ use a low set up?

Finally I've often noticed the different qualities that come when I strum a guitar when it is hung up, the reasonant qualities are quite different, goodness knows how they might be captured!

Puggs

Hi Pugwash,

Thanks.

Re: BJs low action...Well, I was referring to his earlier recordings. It does sound to me like there is a low action. All that rattle and hum! Later things changed a little maybe?

Mark.

I had always understood that it was a high action for volume and tone, low action to make it easier to play, and in particular bend strings.

Paul

Hi Pugwash,

Ref Low actions,Yes it makes a huge difference to the sound. Both with electric and acoustic. But don't be fooled into thinking it's always best to go for Hi action and heavy strings. Both Zep 1 and 2 were done using 10 gauge strings. Jimmy Page spoke recently at his suprise to get those big tones with such light strings. SRV also used tree trunks for strings.

I would say that the heavier the string the fatter or more mellow the tone. The lighter the strings and lower action leads to more treble and buzz. It's also going to harder to play. The treble as a result of the string slapping the frets, can be interesting especially with distorted electric sounds, as Jimmy has proven!

Jimmy Hendrix was also another user of light gauge strings...

Mark.

Didn't Paul Kossof use telephone cable for strings  ;D he managed to bend them a bit, must have taken some finger strength.

If my guitar is anything to go by, Brian May uses a 9 thousand top E. I found it was far too sloppy, and but 10s on.

Paul

Thanks Mark.

You've only got to look at PJWright's Strats to see the variation. He's got a big fat humbucker in the middle pickup position on his greenish one. Gives him a rich bluesy sound.

Any instruments you can't get on with??

Puggs

Hi Puggs,

Well, Bagpipes are kind of loud, and either on or off, if you know what I mean? You either hear them or you don't. they can cut through lead etc.

Hurdi Gurdy and Bombards are similar.  Reedy can be a problem.... 1khzzzzzzzzz

I always a challenge when you meet new and strange instruments, and then have to record them. My foremost aim is to re-create the original sound. On the face of it that sounds simple, and often is, but you can easily get it wrong too.

The only instrument I really struggle with at times is my own!

Mark.

P.S. Did you know Hitler used to play 20 hz frequency through his PA speakers prior speeches, especially to make his crowds angry?

Yes, I still have my stress hobby.
I´m doing the tour promotion for annA rydeR banD and for Mark Gillespie.
Last week another promoter (a real V.I.P. in the business) told me that he is interested in doing a tour with Martin Barre. I gave him Martin´s address. So fingers crossed. I would love to see Martin + band again.

Cheers Ulla

Good to hear Ulla. yeh, would be great to keep Mr Barre busy with his own music?

Mark