TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Has anybody ever attempted to collect everything Ashley has released?  

Apart from the obvious (Discogs etc., which are always unwieldy, often inaccurate/incomplete, and sometimes difficult to interpret when the releases are so plentiful) what is the best published one?  

There's a sort of discography in the Free Reed box if you piece together the partial one (incidentally, does everyone else's copy of the book within it have multiple repeated pages in it?)...but I think it's far from complete.

But has anyone else attempted a personal one?

This was the best Ashley discography I ever found. But no, I never attempted to collect them all.

https://mainlynorfolk.info/guvnor/records/

Jules

Oh that's fab...thanks, Jules...don't think I've seen that site before...

It's a good resourse. Lots of detail on folk song variations, for instance. I use it quite often.

Jules

It is a very good resource to second Jules. Except when you are looking for resources away from err…mainly Norfolk such as I am doing now for a new project. But seriously it is very helpful, well curated and a good jumping off point.

For a while there I felt like I was keeping up with Ashley’s releases but they got away from me gradually and I couldn’t even tell you the last one I bought. Don’t get me started on that Free Reed set. A lot of duplication from The Guv’nor series and the arrangement was IMHO a disaster. It should have been chronological showing the range of Ashley’s multiple and often simultaneous projects.

As a put on a CD and sit back and enjoy experience, you're absolutely spot on (but then I think that with quite a few of the Free Reed boxes).  Just stabilising the volume levels would have been a start.... ;D

Indeed. I mean collectively Free Reed unearthed a lot of great stuff in all the boxes, including the Martin Carthy one, and I will accept some range of lo fi if the tracks are cohesive and worthwhile to the collector in me. I didn't mind the themed approach on the 2 Fairport sets, Richard's, Peggy's, and Swarb's but for some reason I find this one irksome!

It was for sure the weakest one, but then I don't much care for Ashley's music post 1980.

Jules

Incidentally, how does 'Five' fit in with the rest of the Guv'nor series?  Why is it not part of that series?  There's some really good stuff on it...

ps And the deeper one delves, the more insane the task looks... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236028988127?itmmeta=01K95GWBJEKBJH0M3MJHM9AHMD&hash=item36f46c8adf:g:gqEAAOSw9Mln6TPu  ;D

What! You haven't got a copy of "Folk Aerobics"?! Shame on you, David!

I nabbed a cheap copy some years back - the (ahem) "vocal" tracks don't get played too often (OK, just once or twice)!

I feel the same way. If memory serves corrected the label that produced Guv’nor folded, but 5 was in the works and Talking Elephant stepped in? Don’t quote me on that, just going off memory

He must be one of the most reissued artists ever, especially by Talking Elephant (who themselves always seem to change covers every few years).  

I have quite a lot of his stuff, but I think being an Ashley completist would be a thankless task.  Didn't he release an album a couple of years ago which was marketed as his 99th?  No idea how that is counted, but there are lots of relabelled ones, and different compilations too, and it isn't always clear (thanks TE!) what is what!

Ok, so I pick up my copy of "5" (which Discogs tells me this about: This "5" release is a new collection of previously unreleased tracks by Ashley Hutchings and his bands. As its title indicates, it is the continuation of the previous 4 volume series of The Guv'nor albums.)

I get the album, and it has a list of track titles and bands.  Absolutely nothing else (except a badly reproduced partial photograph of some of the RULTS lineup).  What's the actual point of an 'archival' CD if you have absolutely no idea what on earth you are listening to?

I've never hated Talking Elephant more than I do at this moment.  ::) ;) ;D

I second all this. I never bought 5 (I may still do so) but for God's sake, dates and personnel at very least please.

Jules

Is it the one with a black and white photo of AH with beret and a bandana around his neck, with typeface in red, and a red back, and inside a photo of Rise Up lineup on top and the Kellie While lineup inside? Definitely lo res. I think the assumption probably was that it is niche, and people would be familiar (or know where to go for full details) of the lineups on the recordings and the timeline. But yeah, I agree with you. That being said, sometimes in the wrong hands having details can be disastrous- I give you some highlights of Steeleye's Live At The Bottom Line in 1974 written by Gregg Bendian. After a column and a half in a rambling commentary about Guthrie, Pete Seeger and Dylan, before morphing into Little Richard and Chuck Berry, before finally going into British folk music. I give you this chestnut, verbatim-

"Steeleye Span's transformation as a band vividly reflects that time when the love of musical folklore merged with blues and rock energy. Central to this transformation is bassist/songwriter/bandleader Ashley Hutchings, a central key figure in the development of British folk rock (nothing wrong so far, but read on-)
Hutchings, who was working on the skiffle and folk scene founded Fairport Convention with Richard Thompson in 1967. They were soon joined by vocal duo of singer Maddy Pryor and guitarist/singer Tim Hart, along with Judy Dyble, Martin Lamble and Iain Matthews. Hart and Pryor help form a strong core... (at which point he kind of melds the two bands together simultaneously.

Later he spells Maddy's last name correctly, then goes through the changes (no mention of the Woods, or Martin Carthy, Rick Kemp, nor what Peter Knight brought to the group) he finally pushes on to the Bottom Line gig for their sixth release and literally this is as written- " The quintet becomes a sextet for the first time, adding full time drummer , Nigel Pegrun. Mr Pegrum also contributed"... (spot the typo) I can't bare to say anymore!

Which is a shame because it is a good quality recording of the era, from a venue I knew very well in the 90's into the early 00's. So I guess my comment is that when I reasonably know what artists and lineups are involved, as in the case of 5, I am ok with not having much in the way of details for a single CD release. But the flip side of that is getting commentary that is poorly written, clearly not fact checked, and clearly not accurate which I somehow find more infuriating.



 

One I've got is the reissue... https://www.discogs.com/release/11350468-Ashley-Hutchings-Five - it literally has the band names (some of which I've never even heard of) and the title...nothing else.  I actually threw it in the bin (I did rescue it a bit later).  Pathetic.

Which I've now realised has different tracks on it to the bloody original.

I hate them even more ;) ;D

Yeah, I don't think I have ever owned that one. Partly because I have no idea if the tracks are ones I already mainly have or not. I guess if I found a copy in a bargain bin for a pound I might pick it up, but I wasn't going to pay full whack for it without knowing those things.

I'll digitise it, and let you know...

Same.

Jules

Not sure what the reissue that David has shows inside, but my 'original' version has the following tracks-

1. If I Had A Ribbon Bow
2. WKWTTG
3. Reynardine
4. Tam Lin

Obviously Fairport. 1,3, and 4 I feel are versions I have on other Fairport related issues. Who Knows is a rather lovely acoustic band version. I only have that first Sandy boxset, the 3 disk WKWTTG so it is possible this version is on other Sandy releases.

5.Norfolk Line Dance-The Sawdust Band, 1976. Should be most of the same details and personnel as Kickin' Up The Sawdust
6.Cell Song-1978, with an introduction from a presenter I'm guessing. Dated 1978 so essentially the Rise Up Like The Sun lineup with John Tams singing

7. Galliard/Brawl
8. Jacob's Well-both dated 1981, which I take it to be the same 'Lark Rise' group from that year-Ashley, Michael Gregory, Tams, Graeme Taylor, Pete Bullock, Bill Caddick, Howard Evans, and the man we won't name on the medieval instruments, same details as Guv'nor V3

9. The Shipwreck-1987- should be same details as on Guv'nor V2-Cathy Lesurf, Phil Beer, Martin Bell, Ashley, and Trevor Foster

10. Wings Of Mercury-1988- probably same details as on Guv'nor V2-AH, Cathy, Phil Beer, John Shepherd

11. Struck It Right-1993-Live version from Acousticity-AH, Simon Nicol, Chris While, Ashley Reed

12. Daniel Callaghan- 1997, co-written by Chris While & Julie Matthews so guessing from the Demi Paradise era-Julie, Chris While, AH, Simon, Chris Leslie

13. Shine On Love- 1998, from the Ken Nicol/Joe Broughton era. Maybe an outtake from Happy Accident?

14. Pleasures Of The Town/Uncle Bernard's, listed as the Gingham Pinks, 2001-Mainly Norfolk has that as Ashley, Jon Moore, Simon Care and Phil Beer. Sounds like something that would have been on Grandson Of Morris On.

15. Cookery Is The New Rock & Roll-Albion Band 2001.  Nicol/Broughton era

16. Three Ways Of Moving-2001- Same as above

17. Press Gang- Same as above


So that's what it shows on my copy, hope that helps! I've been knee deep in research for what I hope turns into a long term writing project so am in a fact checking/investigative mind right now. At the moment I need help with one specific thing I saw mentioned somewhere in my search. So strange as it seems, if anyone can tell me how Scottish people might pronounce the name Milne (not the author), but a ship captain in the 19th century with that spelling of his name I would be much obliged. There is a song with a historical context I am starting with, and the theory is that it is pronounced quite differently as to how it is spelled and it would be the icing on the cake if that is true!

I've always enjoyed the Ashley 5 (Guvnor) compilation, bought it from AH himself at one of the last Albion Band shows around 2002 - however, I agree, a little more information on the sleevenotes would be nice.

Robert's summing up in the previous post is pretty good, however with one small correction. The voice introducing "Cookery Is The New Rock 'n Roll" is the much-missed Pete Zorn, and the presence of his saxophone on the track confirms this.

Ken Nicol left the latter day Albion Band just after the Road Movies album, so the final lineup which I managed to catch a few times was AH, Joe Broughton, Kellie While, Pete Zorn and either Neil Marshall or Nip Healey on drums. An honourable mention goes to Gerry Conway who depped for them one night only at an open air gig in Bishop's Waltham - AH introduced him as "on loan from Fairport Convention", a great moment.

Thanks Robert (& Dan) but one really shouldn't have to resort to doing this bloody stuff oneself... ;)

Nice work Robert and Dan!

Jules

Thanks Dan for that correction. I always did wonder who spoke that intro, happy to know now that it was Pete.