Hurricane (Dan)
Do you think it might be worth 'owt?
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Posts: 106
Loc: Manchester
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« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2012, 05:00:27 PM » |
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I have never ever missed a gig because I dont like the support, or missed Cropredy because I dont like one of the headliners.
I'm going to Heaton Park to see the Roses tomorrow and they've got Plan B on for Cliffs sake.
It's not a matter of not liking, though, it's a matter of finding morally objectionable. Did the fact Simon Nicol used to sing She Is Woman through the 80s stop you going to see Fairport, too? |
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My wife and kids are leaving me because of my obsession with horse racing. They're at the gate now. And they're off!
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GubGub (Al)
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« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2012, 05:15:03 PM » |
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I hadn't intended to look at the website until I saw this discussion but I am now intrigued. Presumably it is the content of Jake Thackray's original song (one of his most famous) that bothers you, rather than the performer himself?
I have known this song for many years and despite me notoriously being a bleeding heart liberal, it has never previously occured to me that it might be offensive to anyone. On reflection I can certainly understand why it strikes you that way but I do wonder whether describing the personality of a specific individual can really be categorised as stereotyping? I'm not so sure. Personally I have less of a problem with this than I do with the Rolling Stones Under My Thumb or Some Girls, to name but two.
I also think it is possible that some of JT's songs work a little like those of Randy Newman wherein abhorrent viewpoints are often espoused in the first person but the songs are sung in character and the audience are being invited to deride the narrator with their laughter.
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hendo (Dave)
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« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2012, 05:54:28 PM » |
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I agree with Al's last para. I always assumed that Thackery's lyrics were firmly tongue in cheek and to be laughed at, not with.
We will see, as we have booked Fake Thackery for a Glooston Village Hall gig later in the yr, based on v good reviews.
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macademis
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« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2012, 06:40:10 PM » |
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Speaking on behalf of all Brigadiers (Ret'd), I reckon the chap Thackery was a scoundrel and a first class bounder. Let me tell you, if I had in my troop I'd have taught him a thing or two about respect; and if he had have been up in front of me in the magistrate's court I'd have had him bound over for his so-called witty observations and caricatures about stereotypes such as I! Glad it wasn't my village he lived in....
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No such thing as good or bad music, just music you like and music you like less.
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YaBB Master (Colin)
Unelected and unaccountable
Administrator
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Posts: 3459
Loc: West Sussex
and mastery demands a certain style
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« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2012, 06:42:15 PM » |
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It's not a matter of not liking, though, it's a matter of finding morally objectionable.
Thackery's songs are about characters, not a broad attack on any group of people. They are also often extreme and grotesque, with their views exaggerated. One of the things that seems to have been lost in the paranoia of not offending anybody, is the age old practice of mocking people by taking their attitudes to absurd extremes. I have far more of a problem with Digance straying into jingoism. |
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but BEING PAID -- what will compare with it? |
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Andy
Brain half the size of a planet
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Loc: South West Wales
Not perfect. Never claimed to be.
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« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2012, 08:03:34 PM » |
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It all gets very silly. These songs were written in different times and the listener should take account of that.
It is absurd that current versions of "Walk On The Wild Side" by Lou Reed have the line "...and the coloured girls sing..." edited out.
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MarkV
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« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2012, 08:28:59 PM » |
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It all gets very silly. These songs were written in different times and the listener should take account of that.
It is absurd that current versions of "Walk On The Wild Side" by Lou Reed have the line "...and the coloured girls sing..." edited out.
Do they still keep the ".. giving head." line in? |
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O to 62 in sixtytwo years. Where does the time go?
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macademis
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« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2012, 08:39:08 PM » |
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On Moonlight Bay: "You could hear the darkies singing....." Wouldn't be allowed on prime time Saturday night light entertainment these days, but neither would the Black and White Minstrels that sang it. However, there was no irony in that lyric. Unlike the late great Jake's....
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No such thing as good or bad music, just music you like and music you like less.
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Nick the Stick
distracted by some wiggly string
Folkcorp Guru
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Posts: 734
Loc: Eastbourne
Alright here?
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« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2012, 09:21:46 PM » |
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Well...
'Some Spade says 'rock n' rollers, they're all the same' Mott The Hoople
'Yellow Chinky' Blue Mink
'Bit of old skirt' Squeeze
Etc (I'm sure there are millions of examples).
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Steve with the black dog
Your fox is male
Folkcorp Guru
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Loc: The rainy Lake District
So little time, so much to do
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« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2012, 10:55:02 PM » |
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Anyone who can write the line "bore the hind legs of a donkey, she could bore the balls of a buffalo" gets my vote. Looking forward to it.
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A simple life, voluntarily chosen, can be a source of strength.
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Andy
Brain half the size of a planet
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Loc: South West Wales
Not perfect. Never claimed to be.
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« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2012, 12:46:29 AM » |
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It all gets very silly. These songs were written in different times and the listener should take account of that.
It is absurd that current versions of "Walk On The Wild Side" by Lou Reed have the line "...and the coloured girls sing..." edited out.
Do they still keep the ".. giving head." line in? Yes! |
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Jim
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« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2012, 11:47:06 AM » |
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It all gets very silly. These songs were written in different times and the listener should take account of that.
It is absurd that current versions of "Walk On The Wild Side" by Lou Reed have the line "...and the coloured girls sing..." edited out.
Do they still keep the ".. giving head." line in? Yes! that sucks |
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The Dude abides
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bassline (Mike)
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« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2012, 05:05:45 PM » |
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I find that hard to swa.....naah - too far off topic....Jake was a genius and I'm looking forward to Fake.
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Well I never did..
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Dave.P
stay away from hammers
Folkcorp Guru
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Posts: 618
Loc: Isle of Wight
Dave from USA (Uther Side of Andover)
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« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2012, 09:07:43 AM » |
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I find that hard to swa.....naah - too far off topic....Jake was a genius and I'm looking forward to Fake.
you pays your money and takes a chance .. I'm looking foward too ... I have liked most of the tour guests over the last few years and Jake was a great artist .. (Particularly like grandad  ) |
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Nick Reg
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« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2012, 09:37:00 AM » |
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I agree with Al's last para. I always assumed that Thackery's lyrics were firmly tongue in cheek and to be laughed at, not with.
As with a lot of humour Alf Garnett and Alan Partridge being prime examples. |
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There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets
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Penguin (Dunc)
O RLY?
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Posts: 849
Loc: Royton, Lancashire
The Wrong Side of Weird!
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« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2012, 10:34:32 AM » |
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I'll be seeing Fake Thackray (John Watterson) at the Moonbeams Wold Top Festival later this month. I'm not really au fait with the original Jake Thackray material, I know I'm a heathen  , but I'm really looking forward to John's set now after reading through this topic.  |
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It Doesn't Stop Being Magic Just Because You Know How It's Done!
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Neil
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« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2012, 03:50:12 PM » |
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I have always seen Jake's work as being a mirror on society, the danger is when the misguided do not understand this and see their own biases being approved of. I think as a society we may be becoming less able to appreciate irony because of the preponderance of sarcasm in popular culture, we really are dumbing down ourselves as a society.
Neil
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Things change all the time, and they'll probably never be the same again. It's just the natural evolution of the human condition. Guy Clark
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fat Billy(Bill)
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« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2012, 04:25:17 PM » |
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Jake was a genius, absolutly love his stuff.
I'd go and see fake Jake just for them songs......BTW has anyone tryed to play jakes songs, they are bloody difficult to do well.
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Jamie
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« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2012, 10:41:29 PM » |
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I would encourage Peter to dig a bit deeper into Jake's ouvre before dismissing it out of hand. Check out 'The Hair of the Widow of Bridlington' and, for the definitive word on the "just a bit of fun" defence, try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ9JNf5JF34Falling into the "Thackray is a genius" camp, I don't agree with your appraisal of 'On Again, On Again' but in any case a listen to the above should give you a more rounded view of Jake's work. If, after all that, you're still unconvinced you could still attend a Fairport gig without feeling your principles have been compromised. As stated in the last wintour programme, the support act doesn't get a share of the ticket price - the only income they get is from CD sales. So you can vote with your feet, stay in the bar and boycott John's CD, though it'd be your loss, in my view. Jamie |
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fat Billy(Bill)
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« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2012, 07:50:37 AM » |
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Expanding on what Jamie said listen to country bus or the song about the north country farm labourer (can't remember what is called) True folk songs describing a dissapearing life.....I mean, c'mon busses after dark outside a town, yeah right!
I saw Jake at the cambridge FF in the late 70's he was brilliant
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