TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

INteresting speculation to be found here, featuring a couple of our own chaps
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=3126389&latest=1#p36146123 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio2/F2142825?thread=3126389&latest=1#p36146123)

Message 15 downwards

Anyone else heard about this?

not heard about it until now
and that i would pay and travel to see!

And written by Simon Care...now he should know ;) ;D

Betcha they do a L & L spot at Croppers. Chris While is usually there anyway, and it was she who took the Sandy spot at the Beeb presentation. Special guest on parts of the Wintour?  I wonder (and hope)

There is a school of thought that says the addition of powerful female vocalist would turn Fairport from being an outstanding band into a truly great one (again). Cometh the hour. . .

It would be amazing to see it anywhere. I dont think it will be the Winter Tour as i believe Tiny Tin Lady are the guest on that tour.

Cropredy would be the perfect venue - for one of the "anniversary" years.

Anyway - we had that whenAshley narrated the FC history and the variouslineups played - didn't we - or was i suffering from a Surfeit of Ramrod ??

I don't think the L and L line-up could play Croppers this year, as Richard Thompson isn't playing, is he? Unless he's making an unscheduled appearance.

Next year is a Big Anniversary for Fairport - so maybe then.......? {:-)

No but he is around in this country sometime about then ;)

It was said "And written by Simon Care...now he should know "

The answer to that is no i don't know. That is why i asked the question as to whether any one else had heard the rumour.
The lack of anyone knowing anything suggests that it is exactly that .....a rumour!
I would so love it to be true but we can dream can't we

Simon Care

Next question - has the Cropredy set list been established yet? That might give a clue. Bearing in mind the accoustic section have only got about eight days off in the whole of June/July, possibly not.

I bloody hope they do L&L... I hope they do FC, WWDOOH and Unhalfbricking as well... the 2002 Friday set was a shining lamp of hope in a rocky waste of the increasingly twee, winsome and egregious. In fact it was SUPERB... as they went into "Time Will Show The Wiser" I was in a close facsimile of a personal heaven. Now next time, folks (sic), I want Violets of Dawn and Mormning Glory as welll... hello... hello... is ANYONE listening??

Also since FC L&L went down so well at the Folk Awards last year (or earlier this year? I'm getting very old...) I am pretty sure they'll do the gig in 2007. AND I AIN'T MISSING THAT!!!

"Next question - has the Cropredy set list been established yet? That might give a clue. Bearing in mind the accoustic section have only got about eight days off in the whole of June/July, possibly not."

Well, yet again no point asking me. The first time i see the Cropredy set list is about 5.00pm on the saturday.
Maybe i could come onstage and we'll play setlist charades.     Is it a book? Film? song? etc etc

Simon

 
"Next question - has the Cropredy set list been established yet? That might give a clue. Bearing in mind the acoustic section have only got about eight days off in the whole of June/July, possibly not."

The Cropredy set list has to be by necessity be quite flexible, with guest artistes appearing with the band, timing is pretty much impossible to judge, it's not an exact science.
At Cropredy in 2004 Peggy had the task of compiling the "set list" for the Saturday night. This he did back stage in his camper van during the afternoon, finishing around 5pm.  I then spent the next hour toiling away in the festival office producing around 30 copies for artists and crew, around 30 x  2 x A4 sheets ( a three and a half hour set demands a long list) 
At around 6pm it became apparent that a certain guest was not going to appear, this meant a change to the set list was necessary, so Peggy sat down and speedily re- wrote it. Changes made, I set about copying the amended list, yes another 30 copies requiring 30 x 2 x A4 sheets.
My task finally completed with little more than 30 minutes to spare before FC took to the stage, I rushed them hot of the press to Simon Care the stage manager to distribute to the artists and his crew.
As you are aware, the music must cease at midnight, therefore sometime between 11pm and 11.30pm a collective decision is made by the band. If they consider it necessary due to time restraints, the list will change yet again, any lost time will be recovered by dropping some numbers from set.

Only nine weeks to go folks ! can't wait.

PS. apologies for topic drift

Nine Weeks!  Hurrah!!! :)

I'd be interested in a L&L revisiting moment.  Have to admit I've never really got on with the album, but perhaps hearing the songs live, with suitable introductions would help.  Chris While would make a fab Sandy dep, or how about a vote for young Beth Neilsen-Chapman.  She blew me away last year, but probably isn't in this country this time around.  I'd definitely vote for a "retrospective" next year, but there may be some who feel it's too close to the last one - although there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then and some of the newer stuff (I feel) should be held for posterity in the Cropredy format.

Thinking about the rapidly changing set-list, isn't it amazing how people can remember enough songs?  To have enough songs in your head at once for a 3 1/2 hour set is one thing (and an achievement in itself), to have "spare" songs worked up to a gig-able standard as well is incredible!  Not to mention remembering what happens in the one-off Cropredy arrangement of any given song...  And it all sounds so easy from where I'm sitting too.

To quote the erstwhile Tennis great, John Patrick McEnroe (for it was he): You cannot be serious!

Also V Meldrew Esq: "I don't believe it..."

Too close to the last one? 2002? Shurely shome mishtake... I demand a full retrospective in 2007. In fact you can sacrifice all the "present line up" exertions and give the whole weekend over to Pre-1971 FC!!!

Nice one Jack. Although I would push the line-ups to the Farewell Farewell days. After all, the 4 piece were a great band during the early reunions. I've often felt that Trevor's work is under represented at Cropredy. Also, I shouldn't make too much of this, but can anyone really see a 50th anniversary? I don't even know if I'd make it myself at a sprightly 62! We'd need a giant stairlift to the portaloos! Maybe a Liege and Leif festival in 2009, with a line up geared towards all the bands it "influenced" down the years. It would also be 30 years after the band officially split up.

Good call! Now I am definitely up for L&L 40 in 2009! Having spent six months playing chess on the beach with the grim reaper I am not at all sure that 2017 ("FC50") is necessarily on the cards! But a big shindig involving the L&L line-up in 2009 would be great. I will start the bidding for set-list and other featured artistes at L&L Cropredy 2009.... when I get round to it... Sweeney's Men... Swarb and Carthy... Planxty?

In the meantime let's look forward to a FC1/2/3 (FC, WWDOOH & UH) at the 2007 fest....

Has Vikki Clayton gone off the radar as a Sandy dep?

Did a very good "I'll Keep It With Mine" in 2002... my numero uno ever FC track! And Ric T Bizkid's fab guitar... Aaaah!

One can only hope  ;D

Yecch.

You're clearly foreign.... what does "Yecch" mean... precisely now?? Then I'll come back and attack... if necessary...

 I meant to collar swarb on sunday night, re - the possibilty of this coming off
 and when i spoke to him it was as much as i could do to wish him all the best(isnt he little)


 i wondered if yecch means what it sounds like, but im with Jackie on this one , very much so

Meaning what exactly? She does a wonderful job on the 1992 live Cropredy CD.

I think she's considered uncool, Pet.

Me? I think she's fab.
Good wide-ribbon of a voice, she has shades of delicacy as well as raunch, strong delivery, is lyrically entertaining, and has an adventurous twinkle.

 :)

It's not that she's uncool, or particularly untalented, although I wouldn't go out of my way.

It's the way she treads that thin, yet clearly defined line between passing tribute and consuming obsession that I find a wee bit scary.

Anyway - I think we'll just have agree to disagree on this!

Oh, I like that!  ;D ;D ;D

Pint in the Cesbah  :)

Nothing personal to you, honest...I just am not that attracted to an exclusive diet of  nostalgia. A little, I can enjoy. Plus, dismissing out of hand an entire catalogue of work that spans 35 years seems a little...unrealistic, let's say.

Not anything to do with nostalgia.... more to do with the high qaulity of the "older" repertoire than the rubbish currently peddled. It does happen to be true that "modern" music is almost entirely ****... derivative at best...  So yes.... I want quality and that is more guaranteed by pre-1971 than post 1980.... Yeeeuchh indeed

wise words from auld Jackie

Forgive me, but you sound like someone who is turning into their own grandad! Aren't you falling into the trap that all generations do, of thinking that the music of their own youth is better than everyone else's?

 I find this a really interesting topic: The music of my 'youth' (adolescence) was the eighties and early nineties music.
   Even at the time, most of my friends and myself thought it was mostly garbage. We had to start looking backwards, to become explorers, in order to find interesting stuff to listen to. Even now, I think the music of that period (say 82-92) was the worst in the last fifty years of rock of pop, and the music of today (top 40 mostly excluded) seems to me far better than the music of twenty years ago. Just a matter of personal taste, of course  :)

It’s getting on for 40 years since those defining albums were made and all of the musicians involved will have moved on and developed their styles, methods and vision about music. To expect them to have to play the way they did back then I think is unfair because they would, no doubt, have new ideas on interpreting that material just the same way that the current line up of Fairport does. Furthermore, to expect another person to interpret Sandy’s way of doing things I think is a heavy and unjust burden. Should a reunion of that side happen, surely it should be up to the band who is appointed vocalist and up to that singer to interpret as he or she feels fit. We don’t own these guys and we can’t expect them to be basically what would be an authentic tribute band. Let’s give them some slack to delight and surprise us in new ways.

Oh and BTW, just to be a hypocrite, how about our own Ellie? She has a cracking voice, an assured manner and charisma on stage and is prepared to throw a bit of caution to the wind with some fine interpretations of traditional and contemporary songs.

No forgiveness.... only eternal damnation and being chased through time by the Eumenides... Look I actually do like some of what is pushed as music these days although most of my interests have long turned to "World" music, North African especially, eschewing the lamentable lowlands of much contemporary "rock/foilk/blues/what have you".

Who do I like? Paul Weller can be seen as consistently high quality from 1977 to date, particularly in the late 90's. Jeff might not have been Tim Buckley (massive personal fave from the very old days!) but "Grace" is a remarkable album... What else? Barrel scraping... From time to time Oasis were a great live band albeit an extraordinarily derivative one... Who else? Tell me what I am missing... I Love Primal Scream's "Country Girl"...

You see much of what passes for rock/folk/blues nowadays is Postmodern... at best.... References are to Bob Dylan, maybe James Taylor (Norah Jones, Katy Dreadful Melua, James Utterly Abject Blunt...), to The Beatles or Stones (Oasis) etc etc. The canonical references are pre-1980, most pre-1976. The early '80s was utter dross in most cases. The 90's witnessed recoveries of traditions, tastes and the digital recording technology began to repair the ghastly soundscapes of the 80's... Singers reference that period and it is difficult to hit the same heights. Joni Mitchell doesn't even sing anymore...

The whole cultural context is different as well (see separate exegesis for ground breaking exagmination around thoise fortifications).....

FACT Fairport have been one of the most influential bands of all time (well since Buddy Holly strapped on his Fender anyway) but with the possible esxception of the ersatz Fotheringay II line up in the mid-70's they have been in decline ever since. Before 1971? Regardless of my age, my auto-grandfatherhood or whatever the classic age of much of what we love was forged between 1956 and 1979 (December 31). Of course there will always be islands of recovery but even those  refer to an earlier period...

I also love Hank Williams... Benny Goodman... Delius.... Vaughan Williams, Debussy, Ravel....

SO TELL ME, WHAT AM I MISSING IN MY UNDOUBTED DOTAGE?

And being nearly 85 I have foregotten the original point.

I rest my case, Grandad!

I thought you were going to regale me with a schedule of groups/singers/albums/mp3 downloads I should be grooving to.... Anyway I also quite liked the cut of The Libertines although saw that as very derivative in any case..... Come on, sonny.... you mader the point.... WHAT AM I MISSING?


The reverberating sound of silence (and I don't mean Paul Simon).......

FACE IT KID, YOU WERE BORN TOO LATE.... GLOBAL WARMING AND SCHEIDT BANDS..... IT'S A LOTTERY!!


Oh yeah.... I like The Eighteenth Day of May

You are missing a LOT of really good music through closed mindedness...and not just with Fairport Convention. A while back, a big band "expert" came to lecture my son's musical group; he made the claim---with the same conviction as you---that not one decent song had been written since 1958. And he wouldn't even consider the possibilty that he was---at best!---being highly subjective. He cheated himself our of almost 50 years of music.

All western music is derivative of something...including early Fairport. If you don't think so, then you never heard the Byrds or the Band...who in turn were derivative of Woody Guthrie and others. You find nothing listenable in current Fairport Convention? Oh, well. I hope they keep the first 3 records in print for you forever.

Btw, I have had the exact same discussion with people about Little Feat, the Band, and The Kinks.

Little Feat... The Band.... now you're talking!  Sorry but in plain terms I find the current line up's repertoire cosy, slippers before the fire, "let's all have a few pints" PROSAIC. Utterly dreadful songs for the most part and an inability/unwillingness to adapt Trad Arr versions of great ballads despite being some of the best musicians around  etc etc etc. But you again, just like the other young fella me lad have FAILED to offer me even a few names of people I may be missing... I SAY AGAIN... WHO AM I MISSING???

Why worry about it JoD. If the music you like is the music of your youth then listen to it and enjoy it. It is your opinion that it is the best, not every one needs to agree. For many people a glass of white wine and Katie Melua on the CD is what they want, fine let them get on with it.

I could advise that you listen to The Streets, Dizzee Rascal, Orbital, Cypress Hill, Grandmaster Flash, Fat Boy Slim or any other number of artists who have produced some superb music over the past twenty years. Non derivative, innovative artists who have and continue to gave major influence. BUT, it is because they have developed their own genres.

Rock / folk rock / country rock came out of the 1960s and early 70s so it is obvious that anyone else in these genres will look back to the originals who influenced them.

Feel free to say the artists I mention are ****, but they all are originals who have moved popular music on from where they found it. Whcih brings us full circle I would suggest as that is what L&L era Fairport did.


Jackdaw (currently listening to Andy Murray losing at Wimbledon)

STUFF AESTHETIC RELATIVISM! ;)

Anyway Grandnmaster Flash must come under Tradiutional Music by noew you old devil jackdaw!

Dizzee Rascal? Bring me my rabbit hunting shotgun!

Grew up - & still listen to - 1970s music, including FC. Fair to say that - with the possible exception of Yes, Tull, King Crimson & FC, none of those bands had a shelf life of more than a few years and the majority produced jacksh*t worth listening to after the first three albums or so.

I saw the various incarnations of FC at the 30th - or was it the 35th -  Anniversary show and each had its own value & charm. ( Gottle still remains totally outside the Pale). So the L & L line up would be interesting - but I'd attach more importance to the material than the lineup I think. hell - even Cream's reunion gigs last year weren't as great as they should have been.

And as for modernity - there ain't nothing that ain't been done better before. And with the possible exception of Bjork and U.N.K.L.E. , there hasn't been any originality for years either. But my last buys have been The Raconteurs and Skin ( ex Skunk Anansie) and, hitting 50, I still reckon I'm open to new ideas and new sounds. The chances of actually hearing any are I admit slim.

A little off topic - but it's my age you know................................

Most eras are full of musical ****. It's hindsight that sorts out the wheat from the chaff. When Liege and Lief came out so did "Two Little Boys" by Rolf Harris and "Sugar Sugar" by The Archies. And millions of things we've all forgotten about.

As to what you should be listening to now, Jack, that's not for me to say. If you want to believe that nothing good has happened since 1969, that's your loss.

Jack o D - I also like The Eighteenth Day of May, but even they are a bit derivative of a certain group we've all heard of...... especially on "The Flowers of the Forest".

Recent(ish) things I've liked have been by Arcade Fire, British Sea Power, Wilco, The Go-Betweens and James Yorkston. I love looking for new music, but still listen to FC for a disproportinate amount of time!

Have you two finished yet?  I'm trying to find out about this Liege and Lief Out-take album.

Know anything about it?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FAIRPORT-CONVENTION-LEIGE-OUTAKES-CD_W0QQitemZ130003762868QQihZ003QQcategoryZ58590QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem.

By the way - I'm actually enjoying this lively discussion very much indeed.  That's the point of this Board.  Keep it up.  Please.

Peel

I wouldn't be  surprised if such a thing is afoot, I've had a bootleg tape of those sessions for several years obtained through the usual GDead channels, I think off some guy in Florida. Somewhat dodgy quality, mine could well be a third generation or so. Finally, depending on the price, and if its a sanctioned product, it certainly was needed by fanatics such as myself, but unless theres been a signifigant upgrade in sound, I'm sure  easily doable, it should either be free, or no more than 10 US dollars. What figure is  this individual suggesting, like 210$? Steer well clear unless you're in that tiny percentile where its only money.

It's a boot.

did anyone think ootherwise?

And there was I thinking I was dealing with someone with a sense of humour.. . how wrong. Very sad that people on this board have to stoop to such a level. Thankyou and goodnight!

Hey PLW,

You simply fell into the mistake that many of us have done at times. We've assmed that our ideas and opinions are as valid as JoDs, once you realise that this is not the case everthing becomes much clearer.

I had thought once upon a time that I quite liked The Wood and the Wire but JoD made me see the error of my ways and I now know with absolute certainty that Fairport began going down hill in 1968, and that Ric Sanders, by virtue of him not being Dave Swarbrick, is in fact an evil troll.

Come on PLW feel the love, join us and be as one ...

Jackdaw o'Diamonds

Let's not get into personal abuse and side swipes.  Let's leave that to other Boards.

I've held back, as a Moderator, because I like to hear lively debates between people with strongly held views, a library's worth of knowledge, and a good dollop of humour.   But....

Personal abuse will be deleted.  That's the Board's policy.

Don't make me intervene - that's all I'm saying. 

Peel
Global Moderator
217 years

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hear hear sir bob

lets be nice!!

I think I'm with jack, but only up to a point.

For me the first five FC albums are peerless and epoch-making, shaping a vast amount of the music that we listen to today, including the innovators - the originality and genre-swapping of the first album, the arrival of Sandy and the emergence of the songwriting talent in the band with RT in WWDOOH, the premonitory rumblings of Unhalfbricking, the glorious fulfilment of L&L and the joyous instrumental blends of Full House.

They were made and they're still there and they are the only FC albums that I've repurchased on CD.  But trying to recreate the sound using the same line up - NOOO!!!.  Everyone has moved on - and as a fervent admirer of Chris While, she is not Sandy, sorry.

Leave it alone and listen to the albums.

Please.

And I love The Band more than any musical ensemble in history, but have they done anything together or individually since the split in 1975 that's worth 5% of what went before?

Music From Big Pink, The Band, Stagefright, Northern Lights Southern Cross and the Last Waltz.  I've got'em all - and I can play them any time I like. Nuf said

And the 80s were undeniably sh*te.

David  

The Band's album Jericho was, IMO, as good as anything they ever did before; better, in some ways. Their final record, "Jubilation" would have been up there too, but for Levon's throat problems at the time.

Look, I enjoy the early Fairport...but to completely dismiss the following 35+ years of music is absurd to me. Frankly, if I had to pick their finest recorded moment (so far), to my ear it would be "Jewel in the Crown." Followed closely by "The Wood and the Wire" and "Nine." I like" L&L" sorta, love "Unhalfbricking," and find "Full House" unlistenable (although I love "House Full"). To each his/her own, right?

Chris While is no Sandy Denny, Sandy Denny was no Simon Nicol, Chris Leslie is no Richard Thompson and Richard Thompson is no Chris Leslie. So what?

markc
are you writing gags  for anyone? because you should be
that is some of the funniest stuff iv'e read in years, the RT and CL stuff is priceless
can you write me one about aNna RYder and Sandy?



 to each his own, like you said

Jewel In The Crown the finest moment? To each his own? OK... You are being too nice Jim!!

I think I'll start another thread about how "The Da Vinci Code" is the best book since Ulysses.

I sincerely hope not, as the Sandy songs she performed last night were as strong as ever, despite Vikki suffering from travel fatigue. (An audio interview with Vikki will be on the next Brolly, listen out for the Rocky Horror story!)

Jules :)

At the BBC F&A awards this year, Chris While sang Matty Groves in a style which was spookily reminiscent of Sandy. Nevertheless, there were some subtle differences and I would bet money that it was a fine balance between wanting to honour Sandy’s part but also to show that Chris is her own woman. Quite honestly, I think it is unfair to expect anyone to take on the mantle of Sandy, to emulate her. Are we looking for a tribute band? Isn’t it time we all moved on?

I rather think everybody has moved on, but isnt it nice just to take stock of where we've been every now and again

But, should the remanants of the L&L line up decide that a money spinning tour is on the cards, and its their right so to do,theres nothing wrong with speculating as to who would fill in for Sandy and it seems that Chris While is in the box seat at present

 For myself ,i would love it to happen, and if is going to happen then much better sooner than later, nobody in the line up is getting any younger and neither am i

Never a truer word, Pete.

"time we all moved on" meaning what? Forget the idea of the superb L&L line-up getting together for a few well-rehearsed, high-quality gigs? Not on your life. The alternativesa are too horrific. While the possibility is there I am shouting from the rooftops. Brian Wilson doing Pet Sounds and Smile was fantastic... so could a full-power L&L!

ON THAT BASIS I AIN'T MOVING NOWHERE

It appears from my reading of this debate that it is possibly missing the point.  I have been a Fairport fan for 18 years and have massive amounts of time for the line-ups since 1989.  However, in my heart of hearts, a prefer the first four albums over any other music in my record collection.  This does not make me a reactionary who "needs to move on" it is just that the people who made those albums had a magic chemistry between them that for a too brief time produced music that changed my life.

I was at Cropredy in 1992 and 2002 (missed 1997 for some reason, probably a women involved I suspect) and I saw that magic again.  Now, if this rumour were true, I very much doubt that creative people like RT and AH would be happy simply taking L&L on the road.  It would be fun for we hard core people but I doubt either musically or financially rewarding for the band. 

On the other hand, if what is being proposed (and I know it is only a rumour) is for these people to work together in the spirit of L&L but with new ideas/material, then that would be something special. 
These people have a magic together that was not only great on L&L, listen to Iain's first solo album, No Roses even Bones of Old Men (I know AH was not on it).

As to singers, well why not Iain M.  There always seems to be a view at Cropredy that ex-members can only sing on songs they sang on originally.  However, Iain's singing of Sloth on the Plainsong album is fantastic, as was his singing on the Unhalf material at Cropredy 2002.

As to whether it happens or not I have no idea.  RT has talked about doing a trad folk album.  Why not with these people? 

Before this turns into an essay, I will sign off with the thought that life is all too short and if there is any interest within these people to work together again they should do it asap.  Wife permitting, I would attend every one.

For those who missed it yesterday the Observer ran a 50 most influential albums of all time thingy. L&L came in at no 45.

Um...comparing early Fairport to Ulysses? O..........K.

Enjoy the 60s.

A few years ago I was in Edinburgh suffering a hugely pretentious self-indulgent music-theatre-dance-expressionist extravaganza thingy. The bloke next to me leaned over and whispered, "I left the 1960s to get away from this sort of thing!"

I thought Joyce wrote it in the 1920s.  ;)

Don't reply - it only encourages them..... 1922 to be precise... First Edition anyone?

I was referring to early Fairport and disliking anything after *1970.  ::)



*Whether one has bothered to actually listen to it or not...

It seems that in order to bring order to this debate the only sane thing to do is to wait until next years Cropredy when we shall all be able to compare and contrast to our hearts content.

At least then the personal comments and sniping may be moderated by beer consumption or not, until then can we play nice and admit that we are all entitled to our opinion however wrong or right it may be after all it's all subjective at the end of the day.

Now can you all join me as I open a bottle of Budweiser lean back and revel in the hoped for reunion of the Gottle of Geer lineup the only album never to have a track played at Cropredy, now that would be something to see wouldn't it. ???

I could never join you in opening a  *********, almost anything else will do  ;), but a Gottle line up at Croredy would be great fun ;D
Staffan

in the bit of film i have of them the gottle line up were great live and would enhance everybodys festival experience
 see! that was after 1970 :)
mmmmmmmm 1970

Bonny Bunch of Roses was a fine gigging band... faded glory but worthy all the same.

I don't DISLIKE anything produced after 1970.  I just prefer the first four albums, that's all.  It was seminal, different and exciting. Since then Fairport have simply become the major part of the consequences of what they started themselves.  No, take that sentence out or we'll be here for another week....... :P

Correct... seminal, different, exciting..... it's a different scene now... Boozey, "good-natured", cosy, unchallenging, "mumsy"... maybe that's my biggest "gripe"... Come to think of it the best things in "popular" music since, say, 1970 have been Punk, the Manchester Scene and Raves. They were all "good things". I'd go back and restate my argument but i drink you know and I've feckin' forgotten what this thread ("Thread - more like a bleedin' carpet" - ed) was all about. And ANYEWAY no one has given me their closely-argued list of "great things" to happen since circa 1977.... I await with barely bated breath. There goes another week! ;))

The original purpose of this thread was to discuss rumours of a L&L lineup touring at some point. It has since turned into a running argument that has at times come close to personal insult.

There will always be disagreements about which lineup was best, who is the better fiddle player and which producer should the band use to give them more energy. Everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as it does not become destructive to the debate.

I find it hard to imagine seeing Ashley, DM, Mr Nicol, RT and Swarb with whoever they chose to sing being considered a gig people on this board would not attend. I also imagine that after the gig there would be people who would be incensed at the way ther revisited the old favourites, as lets face it I cannott imagine a tour consisting of a reenactment of past glories if it was to happen, they just don't seem the type of musicians to do that.

argument as to who is the best fiddler!!!???
does not compute, there can surely be no argument on this subject, the greatest fiddler the world has ever seen and the man who in consort with Dave Pegg is responsible for the fairport name still being used when it could easily have died in 1972 and 1976:- Dave Swarbrick

the rest of the previous post i can only agree with wholeheartedly

The Paisley Underground scene in LA during the mid-eighties was pretty exciting - if you were a fan of the Byrds, early Floyd and the Velvet Underground.  There were a whole slew of bands from it: Rain Parade, Long Ryders, Green on Red, the Bangles (before Prince got a hold of 'em!) and Dream Syndicate.  Great stuff - but, of course, nobody was interested at the time.....except crusty wannabe hipsters.......like myself.      

Correct... seminal, different, exciting..... it's a different scene now... Boozey, "good-natured", cosy, unchallenging, "mumsy"... maybe that's my biggest "gripe"... Come to think of it the best things in "popular" music since, say, 1970 have been Punk, the Manchester Scene and Raves. They were all "good things". I'd go back and restate my argument but i drink you know and I've feckin' forgotten what this thread ("Thread - more like a bleedin' carpet" - ed) was all about. And ANYEWAY no one has given me their closely-argued list of "great things" to happen since circa 1977.... I await with barely bated breath. There goes another week! ;))
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I like a bunch of Fc post 1977. For example, I can give you expetive deleted. It is all instrumental and has many fine songs. They brought back 2 old guitarists for the final medley. Port Marion, Cat on the mixer, and Innstuck all have held the test of time, or at least to me. We all have our favorite eras or songs. I don't like the newer post Maart cds very much. They don't seem as inspired, but to write off everything the band has done post 1977 seems silly. Although I don't have all the new cds, they do contain some good songs. Spanish Main is one of em. So I disagree with your bold statement.  And I would love to see the l&l line up in any way shape or form.

Long Ryders - the excellent Sid Griffin... very good, but where would they be (in playing or in homage) without Gram Parsons (who looked shockingly like your humble correspondent)?? The original Dream Syndicate? John Cale? Now that's waht I call seminal! Also Swarb is to any other quotable fiddle player as Pele is to Phil Neville... Aly Bain shades in possibly... I am rushing off to plunge deeper into Paisley Underground as we speak.... a report back from that particular battle front may be expected shortly.

Christ! I misread the first line because when I was in Paisley, Scotland in the mid-80s the most exciting thing was the burgeoning length of the dole queue.  Long Riders.......great band.

He was burnt to a crisp by Phil Kaufmann in 1972, Jack.  Hope for your sake you look better than that!

And, who (Sid) also wrote the first complete biography on the Grievous Angel! 

And, its true, Jack.  You do share a remarkable resemblence.  You should sequester Allison Moorer about participation in her future videos in the event that her current Gram impersonator does his own Joshua Tree. :D

Well, it's very easy for you to prove your point: all you have to do is dislike anything produced after 1977. So what would be the point?

As for me, I find a lot of really amazing music being produced these days, albeit largely by the indies. Look, I am not knocking the 60s...they were great. So was the fourth grade; I just don't want to live there my whole life, ya know?

This thread has moved far from it's original intent and is getting somewhat repetitive.

If you want to argue about music throught the ages and it's merit or lack of merit go for it but let's take it to a part of the board were everyone can join in. It might be more interesting that way.

Yep, I knew we were going to get the whistle blown on us, eventually.

Okay, here's a twist back into the intent of the thread.  If the line up were to materialize, I would suspect it would only be limited to touring the UK, with a possible jump to the continent for a couple of gigs.  Outside the US, I have only seen Fairport at Cropredy, so what is the normal draw for the current line up at a typical UK appearance?  In the States, I don't think I ever seen them draw more than 100.  By contrast, RT usually brings in 200+ (the "+" being significant).  Is this ratio similar in the UK?

What I'm getting at:  How large of a draw could this reunion generate?  It would certainly attract both current fans and disenfranchised ones who still attend RT shows, but who else would it attract?

That being asked, I know there are a lot of factors to ponder.  But, what the hell, let's let the thread die an honorable death!

Name me a band whose members are over 50 that is none of these - or indeed, 'challenging'.....

You'll be hard pushed. And if they started playing like they did back then, they'd be accused of being 70s dinosaurs. For those two reasons, I suggest you hold your opinion, as nothing will change....


Bit of an oxymoron (is that the right word here?).....it's either all instrumental OR has many fine songs (which aren't instrumental....)


Hmmm - difficult one. Here in the UK, RT plays slightly larger venues, but fewer of them on each tour. In total, I guess FC play in front of more punters than does RT. However, the cross-over isn't as big as ytou'd think. If RT & FC were to gig together, I guess the audience would be comfortable in 1000 seaters....

Fair enough...no worries.

with the attendant publicity and someone giving them a push they could easily do concert halls
RT fills them on his own

But as I said further back, an RT tour maybe takes in a dozen venues, while FC play upwards of 30. Given a level playing field, I reckon FC out-punters RT by a bit.

But might that be more based on the choices of both parties' tour agents, rather than actual demand of the market(s)?  Fairport will play in some relatively small towns, like Leek or Preston, whereas RT usually plays exclusively in the primary markets, which are fewer in number by comparison.  Naturally, Fairport will have more punters simply by virtue of a more thorough market saturation.

Right?

Absolutely.....

But are RT's punters 'fans' if they can't be arsed to travel?.....

I'm sorry.......

"arsed"?

 ??? :-[

"Arsed" British Slang term, used to replace the word bothered, "Coldnt get off thier Arse's" Vulgar ;D

i cant be arsed to travel very far to gigs, but i certainley would class myself as a fan
 and the L&L line up touring is a bit extra special
 

Thanks for clearing that one up for me, Mark.  I'm a little dim on my "Britonics!"  That being said, my East Tennessee dialect has made it difficult for me to be understood in the UK as well (except in Fife, for some darn reason ;)).  I thought "arses" was simply a corruption of a very similar word used to describe one's elegant posterior, as your example implies, but Chris' amd Jim's does not. 

isnt it lovely to speak a living language ;)

Ego congruo, meus amicus! ;D

exactamundo , rightbakacha ;D