TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

I just heard about this on another forum - it's a distillation of the huge box that came out a while ago. Amazon has tracklist but no othe r details. I 'preordered' as they say, because I didn't keep the megabox. Anyone else heard anything about this?

How come?  Did you flog it for a profit?

Jules

 I said at the time that all the rare stuff would be repackaged soon, the squeeze goes on and on and on.....

Though this is surely the opposite of the squeeze as those of us who did not buy the big box because of the price or because we did not want to duplicate everything we alrady had can now pick up all the bits we are missing for sensible money.

"They" (the executors and their people) really are treading a very fine line at the moment.  I can see both sides of the argument but personally, my patience is starting to run a bit thin.

What's the betting they'll have found one or two 'previously undiscovered' gems from under a cupboard somewhere to part the diehards from their cash?

Wait till it goes on Amazon/iTunes/7Play/Rhapsody etc and then get the tracks you dont have individuallly?

The tracklist is already on Amazon so you should be able to cross check.

No, but part of me now wishes I had. I was disappointed because of:(a) every single disc being surface marked because of useless packaging (no inners to protect CDs):(b)broken tray.

THe latter fault was widespread, and universal did promise to sort something out for people with broken trays but I dunno if they ever did.

(c)The artwork was, IMO, poor and the finish on the card sleeves rather tatty. I also heard that the hardcover book has a tendency to warp over time.

All in all, I felt, and still do, that Sandy and her fans deserved better.

My copy had one of the discs missing , just an empty case . Fortunately I managed to get it replaced just before they sold out. Amazon were very good and sent a new set before I returned the first one.

This surely is a win/win situation . You either keep it and enjoy it (which I will) or sell it for nearly ten times what you paid for it.

A win would be a decently packaged set for a reasonable price, made generally available.

It was generally available for quite a few months.
Unfortunately economies of scale were not available as she aint no Cheryl Cole (and thank Cliff for that) ;D

But how much of what is on there is not on the Boxful of Treasures set I bought a few years ago (not having got the big set)?  It looks as if quite a lot of it is the same (though I haven't made a detailed comparison).

Except you need a couple of years off to research exactly what you already have or don't have - I've certainly lost count.

Jules

I meant cross check against the big set that came out last year. I suspect everything that is on this was also on that. It looks as though this is just intended to be the tracks from that set that were not previously available elsewhere.

Whuich seems to be what the forthcoming set will be, if I'm correct.

Actually, if Universal really want to clean up, and nothing else, they need only press up another say 5,000 copies of the megabox and they'd sell like hot cakes, judging by how desirable the initial run became, and so quickly. :D

Well, that would be nice.  But as I said above, a quick glance at the tracklist does make it look like there's a fair bit of overlap with Boxful of Treasures...

I know you did.  That's still too hard for me to attempt!

Jules

According to the email I've just received this set itself is limited to 3500 sets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V1qsHDfL9Y

What about this?

Bloody marvelous - thankyou.  Once you get your ear in it's really quite listenable...some truly marvelous guitar from Richard, and Tim and Pat doing their thing perfectly.  Awesome.

It can be downloaded using Firefox with it's add on Download Helper as an MP4 file.

Now, that would be plum awful.  Seems like they'd say something more about it on the website. Kind of peculiar.....

Case in point: Which Sailor's Life is on it? Is it different from the one that's on Watching the Dark?  Is it the one from Unhalfbrickn'?  Better not be! Either way, it can't be too rare....else there was some major stuff on the mega release that slipped my notice.  I'd love that to be the case here!

I separated the audio in Adobe Audition CS6, which is very compressed indeed - deliberately perhaps??

I’ve now seen the complete tracklisting, so I can give you more details:

- There’s nothing on here that wasn’t on the big box.
- The majority of tracks appeared for the first time on the big box.
- There’s a handful of tracks on here that appeared first on the big box, then again as bonus tracks on the “deluxe” reissues of the solo albums.
- There’s a small overlap with Boxful of Treasures and the WKWTTG boxset.
- There are a few tracks that have appeared before on single albums (e.g. Fotheringay 2, Alex Campbell & His Friends).  
- The early home demos on disc 1 are mastered from the original reels and therefore (as on the big box) sound better than the bootlegs that have been in circulation for years.
- A Sailor’s Life is the Watching The Dark version.
- The packaging is more sensible – you don’t need to build an extension to your house to accommodate this one.

Overall, I’d say if you’re a Sandy completist and you missed out on the big box (or couldn’t afford it), then this is worth having.  

Thanks, Philip.

Is there anything that was new to the big box not covered by this smaller one?

Jules

Definitely. The big box had 8 discs of "bonus" material, a lot of which was previously unreleased; this is only 4 discs, a sort of "best of", selecting one version of each song where the big box had multiple versions. Like you I haven't got time to check what's not on here. You could ask the compiler. The big box was on iTunes in the UK -- don't know if it still is -- if so you could download what you're still missing.  

Philip

I looked at the topic title very quickly and thought the set's title was "Noise and Words" and thinking that that was the unkindest title imaginable.  I guess of all the possible complains, we don't have to add that the set has an insulting title...

Oh I have it.  I just still haven't got familiar with its scale and scope!

Jules

I've just got an Email from Mr and mrs amazon and all their wee weans, its on its way, i.e. its in the post along with the new madness cd

Let us know what the packaging is like on this edition please Jim.

the madness cd or sandy box?
ok, ok, now i am assuming that it will be the same format that universal have used for a few years now on their 4 cd sets, where the cds overlap and are a bugger to get out without bending.
i'll let you know as soon as it arrives

Cheers. Yes I did mean the Sandy box set.  I understand a lot of people were unhappy with the 17cd(?) box packaging.

Yes.  And a lot more people were disappointed that they couldn't even get one.

Oh and it was 19 CDs.

Jules

Haven't you got a spare grand knocking around Jules?   ::)

I've already got one.  I was thinking of other folks, Pete.

Jules

Here is a link to the Mojo competition, where you could try and win it. As I wouldn't be parted from my copy either.

http://www.mojo4music.com/blog/2012/10/win_mammoth_sandy_denny_collec.html

Yes, I was one. There's discussion on the SD website-  might still be there. I though t it was a big let down, having orderedd it weeks or months in advance. No protective inners for discs, broken tray. Sorry to repeat.

Thanks for the competition link, these things are always worth a go  :)

its arrived and the box is as i described above

Fanx Jim.

Arrived in the post today...nicely packaged!...like a hardback book with 2 discs at each end, and a 42 page booklet in the middle with some lovely pics!

Just listened to disc 1 of mostly early demos...sounds fabulous!...but I'm a bit tired to appreciate it tonight ^-^...Looking forward to a proper listen at the weekend!... :)

As well as the Mojo competition, there are two other opportunities to win the main contents of the mega box (i.e. the 19 CDs and the fancy book):

http://thequietus.com/articles/10520-win-sandy-denny-box-set
http://www.clashmusic.com/win/win-sandy-denny-collection

Got my copy today. Nice. Universal have devised a form of packaging where it's impossible to remove or replace the Cds without scratching them.  :( And just to make absolutely sure, the discs are already scratched, presumably during packing.  

I can't see the problem. You just push the little tab that says "Push" and the CDs pop out. Or at least mine do. Playing them now.

Yes, I see how it works, but it's fiddly, esp. when you're replacing. and mine are scratched, like i said. And one of the tabs is broken.

Go on, call me a fussyclogs. ::)

On my Sandy BBC box one of the discs came loose at some point and got all scratched up.  The design isn't good.

Jules

Yes, it would have made more sense to make the box a bit longer and just have 4 conventional trays, without the overlapping.

Just begun listening to it - still on disc one so far, but it is much better quality than I expected from nearly 50 year old home recordings!

The new Sandy Denny website has a wonderful resource, with a list of all the songs she recorded and of the different versions that have been released, which is great for finding out what has been released on other compilations, as bonus tracks, etc - http://www.sandydenny.org.uk/music/songs/.  I think I may be visiting it frequently.  It also has the lyrics for many of them.

I agree. It has been a bit of a busy week since mine arrived so I have only made it as far as disc 3 (will catch up with disc 4 tomorrow I hope) but the quality of recordings, mastering and material have far exceeded my expectations. Nothing bootleggy at all. I think my favourite stuff so far are the Fotheringay out takes but there is much to choose from.

Does anybody know whether the non Sandy led performances from the Fairport '74 Troubadour gig are officially available anywhere? I ought to know but it is possible that I have missed them.

Incidentally, much as I love Sandy I have never been quite sure about the "Britain's greatest female vocalist" tag that is routinely applied to her. I wasn't sure what criteria were applied to make this distinction but having listened to the absolute control she has over her instrument in these versions of It Ain't Me Babe and Who Knows Where The Time goes and how extraordinarily expressive it is I think I get it.

Only on the big box, as far as I know.

Jules

I'm particularly enjoying the lyrics to Dirty Linen!!   ::)

"Britain's greatest female vocalist" has many nominees. I'm afraid I don't always ascribe this term to Sandy Denny. Dusty Springfield and Maggie Bell are but two other contenders for this, IMHO.

Hi GubGub,

Andrew Batt here. compiler of Notes and the Words etc. I'm really pleased to read all the positive comments- I did alot of work to find missing reels, and to go through literally everything, and I think Notes and the Words is  like an alternative 'best of' As devoted fans will know, Sandys demos and outakes are often as good/better than the album versions, so the set is a great record of her career.

Also the few songs on Notes and the Words that do crossover with Boxful of treasures, are sometimes different versions,for example 'Geordie' and 'Go your own way my love' I mixed from the master reels, whereas on Boxful, they were transferred from the Attic cassetts. The home demo of 'By the time it gets dark' is also a stereo version on Notes, whereas on Boxful its mono.

those wishing to do a thorough comparison of versions can do so here: http://www.sandydenny.org.uk/music/releases/sandy-denny/notes-and-words-collection-demos-and-rarities/notes-and-words-collection-demos-and-rarities/

The non Sandy performances from the LA Troubadour are unavailable at present, but that may change :)

best

Andrew

Thanks very much, Andrew.  I think you have done an exceptional job on Notes and Words, and thank you for putting all those details about the songs and versions up on the website as well. Very interesting for those of us who get a bit obsessional about these things :)

It would be great to have the whole of that 1974 LA Troubadour concert available one day...

Very true. Of all the unexpected gems, I have always regarded the released ersion of Candle In The Wind as rather pointless and something of a stain on Sandy's official catalogue but the solo piano version on here is breathtaking and gives Elton's original a run for its money.

Hi Gub Gub,

Agree re Candle in the wind- without all the production around it, you can really here how passionate and intense Sandy's performance is, whereas with all the band overdubbed, it just sort of kills it. I remember when I was going through the reels, how surprised I was just hearing her voice like that.

best

A

Re candle, while it is preferable to the previously released version, i have always wondered why she recorded that piece of maudlin dross in the first place, possibly at gunpoint?

Hi Jim,

Candle is perhaps a trifle over familiar now, but to Sandys ears it would have sounded much fresher- It is a bit saccharine, but Eltons piano style is not that far from Sandys on some songs; also I hate to disappoint but Sandy actually really liked the song and wanted to do it! She told patrick Humphries in an interview that she was playing it at home in Byfield and Trevor heard it and asked her if she wanted to do it in the studio to which the answer was yes! I do think that it is a shame one of her own songs was bumped from Rendezvous to make way for it...

best

A

If you can cast your mind back to the days before the vomit inducing saint-diana-the-presstarget version I don't think it was so very dreadful back then. But we are where we are...

I think it's possible that you missed the subtext and true fury in that song.

Anyway, back on topic.

I love Sandy's singing, and would rather listen to her than any other female vocalist. That said, my much-better half, a musicologist who is blessed/cursed with perfect pitch (and is also, I should point out, a real admirer of SD's), tells me that it's not uncommon for Sandy to go either flat or sharp (can't remember which). Indeed, if we have What We Did on Our Holidays on in the car, we have to skip "I'll Keep it with Mine" for just that reason; apparently it's too painful to listen to. I can't hear it myself, except that when my beloved sings the correct note at the same time, I do notice the difference.

FWIW, Andy, when it comes to singers in the popular music arena, her vote goes to Dusty Springfield.

My other half can always hear Neil Young doing that.  And friends of mine tell me they hear Sinead O'Connor doing the same.  I'm also told I do it myself.  Luckily for me, I just don't hear it, or at least not often.  I think a voice with personality doesn't need to be on pitch 100% of the time.  Feel is more important to me.

Jules

Much more important.  Always.

I mean, I can enjoy Phil Lesh singing...really.  :)

I always assumed it was deliberate when she was not 'on the note'.

Back in the stone age, when I did O level music, out reacher explained that Bachs genius was that he knew when to breat the rules - I think the same goes for great singers.

Ahh I do therefore I am  (its a mistake when I hit hte right note!!!) ;D

Every singer hits a bum note from time to time.

Not with Autotune!  ;)

Me too. Except on some of those 90s tapes of Box of Rain live. Ouch!

I was talking about him now.  Believe me, he was better in the 90's  ;D

'good enough for jazz' to quote Saint Richard of Thompson.

If it's good enough for ***** then it's good enough for me.

Well I'd have to ask my wife to leave the car for the duration of that track, simply because it's my favourite Fairport track ever recorded.  It's been that way since I bought the album all those years ago. It's the classic line up and classic song too. Incidentally, it does happen to be my wife's favourite track also.  

I'd be in trouble if she left the car: she's the driver!  :)

Quite. Listening to Nic Jones: Unearthed, yesterday I was struck by how often he's off the note, in spite of being a wonderful, clear singer. The timing and delivery overcomes a lot.

"Perfection is always boring." - J. Garcia  :)

 8)

Box set now deleted apparently - and Muse Music didnt manage to get any copies.

There do seem to still be some around, but if you want it, buy it up now.

What's with all this 'instant deletion' bollix?!   >:(

Jules

I'm with you Jules. It's absolute bollix. Perhaps the guy that put the albums together can enlighten us. I don't believe SD would have been impressed with these strange methods.  >:(

That's ridick-a-lick-alickalous!

Still available on Amazon, I see, so get out there and buy it if you haven't already!  But I thought the idea of this one was that it wouldn't be a limited edition like the big box?  Still, I'm glad that i did decide to splash out on it already, so I don't feel pressured about getting it now.

Same here!  :)

I was under the impression that it was a limited run of 3000 copies.  ???

Got a copy at Picadilly Records today, so I'm sorted!

If there's indeed merely 2000 of them, Fame Records in Amsterdam stocks 1% of the lot, apparently. Just got it (39.95 Euro). There was a rather big pile of them.

I've recently been in 2 HMV shops that each have a copy on display - in the Blue Cross sale - 25% off - so £36 rather than £48.  

One was in the Liverpool One shopping centre, t'other was Shrewsbury.





 

If anyone gets stuck, I've got an unopened spare. (I sometimes buy 2 of things like this just in case.) ;)

Better get into HMV pretty quick before it all disappears!

Roll up, roll up for the latest vinyl Sandy reissue...

http://www.uvinyl.co.uk/p/0600753376331?utm_source=Mailer&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=SandyDenny

Let's dress it up and eke a few more £££s out of her devoted fanbase.  ;)

I bought the 4cd box set on ebay for £19.00 last week

£22.04 - £19.79+£2.25 P&P by the look of it.

A veritable bargain! Well done!

Fond of vinyl, so I may go for this, though Universal's Back to Black series doesn't have a wonderful reputation. Some of the releases are taken from a digital source, possibly a hi rez one. Some aren't-  the newest Nick Drake: Pink Moon used the same mastering (john Wood, original tapes) as the deluxe boxed PM. It is, as our american cousins say, a crapshoot, unless you do the homework.

An LP reissue done from digital source is, some would say, a nice big black CD. Others might argue it gives you some vinyl warmth. The argument goes beyond my interest, but it's been well rehearsed.

Emperor's New Clothes - vinyl/CD/downloads all sound the same to my tired ears ::)

My God, they MUST be tired, Stephen.  :o

I have known people that absolutely worshipped Sandy Denny and would, if they could afford it, buy everything put out in her name.

I can't get to that pitch of excitement and in a way I envy those who can. In the meantime, I'll just have to make do with the recordings I have.

April 21 marks 35 years since her death. I know that not everyone wants to move on, but a little movement might be beneficial.

Thanks Andy I meant to put plus p&P on my message

I don't quite worship Sandy, Andy, but I come close. I like her stuff so much but the circumstances of her death, and the memory of it as the first public death which affected me deeply, make her music at once beautiful and unbearable to me. There's some stuff I can do without. I must have been one of the first to 'pre-order' the Big Box, but the first not to keep it because the quality was, imo, so atrocious. I don't have the Thea Gilmore record yet, or any of the tribute albums, but those don't really count.

There's a positive and negative aspect to a posthumous legend like Sandy, or Nick Drake. We get endless repackagings of albums we've all got already, which don't SOUND any different, or have been messed up and sound worse, but we occasionally get something which sounds, and even looks, superb, like the Pink Moon box.