TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Ok, I've had a look on here, and a quick search online, perhaps someone here knows the answer. Don't I recall that the first appearance by ANY Fairport member on an album was not Swarb (as one would expect due to him being a few years older than anyone else when first he joined) but Bruce Rowland. If I recall correctly wasn't it some type of pipe and drum band thing in 1959? I know I saw that somewhere but cannot remember where.

Bruce was born in '41 so its certainly quite possible...although I don't know the answer myself I'm afraid.

Thanks David, just dawned on me I didn't look in the Patrick Humphries book, which may be where I saw it. I will have a look tonight.

This sounds familiar...way back in the mists of time (probably some time around 2002, actually), I was at the Gosport & Fareham Easter Folk Festival, and chatting about Fairport-related stuff to the gentleman manning the cd and record stall. He pulled out an ancient LP of marching band music, pointed at one of the massed drummers and informed me that this was Bruce Rowland. So, Robert, you're barking up the right tree here, but the name and year of the album escapes me...anyone else like to take this one further ?

Thanks Dan-nice to know it wasn't a complete invention of my mind! Looked at the Patrick Humphries book last night, couldn't find it there, also checked Unconventional booklet (but theres so much in there I couldn't find it), but no luck. I'm thinking now it may have been mentioned in an old Mojo article that I believe I have still, so will have to check that now.

I've found several 1959 pipe-and-drum albums, but so far, only this one has a shot of the massed band on the cover:
http://classicvinyl.com/romantic/scots-guards-pipes-and-drums-marches-1959-stereo?page=2


I will keep searching

[Photo over 400 days old. Removed by Admin.]

aye thats him 3rd rank 4th from the left

LOL

I was doubtful about his belonging to a Scots Guard band, being born in Middlesex and all, but I'm not really sure that this would have prevented him from joining that band ...  would it?

Thanks for the research Bob, wish I could find where I saw this written about. For some reason 1959 sticks out in my head but I could be wrong.

Is he the one with a skirt on?

Keep searching Robert... nothing worse than losing yer Mojo  ;)

I have a feeling Swarb appeared on at least one of those "Iron Muse"/Radio Ballads LPs, but I think they were early-mid 60s?  Google calls...

Sorry to double-post, but according to Swarb's discography page on his own website, his first record was released in 1962: Ewan MacColl, Alf Roberts, A L Lloyd, Peggy Seeger - "Whaler Out Of New Bedford".

Ironically Paul that is what brought the whole thing up for me. I was looking at the book to the Swarb box set  and seeing some of the Radio Ballads stuff he did with Charles Parker and Ewan MacColl back before he had joined the Campbells. Then I thought, don't I remember reading about Bruce having an album before that. The search goes on......  ;D

According to Wikipedia, in 1968, Bruce played drums on the Wynder K. Frog album "Out of the Frying Pan", his first recorded recordings (as it were). I have also found reference to an EP the year before with the same band entitled "Green Door/Dancing Frog".

Demostrably Wikipedia isn't the oracle, if you do get any other info, perhaps you can update his entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Rowland_(drummer)).

Thanks Andy, this is turning into a quest now! If I do find reference I will update his Oracle, I mean wiki entry  ;)

I'd be pretty surprised if he managed to get to 27 before his 1st recording session?

He did a lot of session work, which would have not, in those days, earned him a credit on any recordings. In fact session musicians seldom get a mention even now as they are often - technically and musically - far superior to the "names" on the song. I knew Jon Davie of Home Service in the 1970s - he did a lot of session work back then and seldom got a credit.

I used to know a session singer who "backed" a certain very famous scots lass singer singing quite a few difficult riffs for her on record and occasionally, live. Nary a word of her name was said out loud to the public except perhaps at live concerts.

At work, so can't check but just had a thought as to another place I may have seen this-that Pete Frame family tree that came with Fairport Unconventional perhaps? Will have a check later unless anyone has one handy.

Just checked this particular Pete Frame tree and it takes Bruce's career back to Wynder K Frog, Terry Reid, Ronnie Lane's Slim Chance and Joe Cocker but no further back than that, alas...

Bugger! back to the drawing board then! Thanks for checking Dan, appreciate it.

Hallelujah I found it! As written by John C. Falstaff in the notes to Fiddlestix (The Best of Fairport 1972-1984) on Raven from 1998. He writes, "...Bruce Rowland, whose impressive pedigree stretches all the way back to 1959 (Marching With The Coldstream Guards-literally! on RCA Victor RD-27112)..."

So there it is....The only reason I bought that particular compilation at the time of its release is because it had 2 songs from Bonny Bunch Of Roses, which was unavailable at the time. I had no reason to get rid of it, but I literally have not opened the sleeve notes in years, and out of desperation after spending 2 hours looking through every old magazine clipping in relation to Fairport I posess, it was a last ditch effort to go through CD notes. Glad I found it, thanks all for the help. Amazing how much trivial stuff I remember about music......now where did I put my keys?

Glad you've found it - I've been following this quest with interest, but I haven't posted as I have no idea about the early recordings of Mr Rowland, so I wouldn't have been able to help.  But I came across this which may (or may not!) be of interest

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MARCHING-COLDSTREAM-GUARDS-LSP-1684-RCA-Album-R-VG-EX-C-EX-LP-1491-/300679745096?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item4601e8ce48#ht_1539wt_1037

Do we glean from this that Bruce was a guards bandsman?

DW

I dont remember Bruce towering over the rest of the band esp Swarb and would have thought he was a trifle short to be a guardsman

the term coldstream guards to me evokes a vision of bearskin topped squaddies with snotty noses........

http://www.alexlyons.co.uk/atrax/swarbstore/other_back-catalogue/Fairport_at_Broughton_Castle_1981.jpg
proves the assertion of lack of height differential and whereas the minimum height requirement was 5'10" that has now been relaxed:

"...you will never believe this but over last weekend we were talking to coldsteam guardsmen at the cenotaph, the minimum height requirement for the guards now is 5' 2" and this limit is set only because that is how big you need to be to reach the pedals of a landrover!"
Presumably a similar distinction applies to stickmen being able to reach bass pedals...

Ian McDonald (the King Crimson/Foreigner one) isn't that tall and he was an army bandsman as well, he'd just been bought out when I met him.. Contrary to some opinions, it was very good training for a musician.. :)

I've been asked by a colleague who is ex-military to clarify that the changes of entry requirements from 5'10" to 5'2" were not brought in as a result of the lifting of apartheight.................

Thanks Mick, once I had the full name and label code I searched for it as well and came up with the same cover shot. I wonder if Dan rembembers that being the same front cover he saw years ago?

 blimey, i thought they were all about 6foot4 , must be the hats ::)

mind You Bruce probably did national service so who knows
And Ian McDonald as well! he was on the Gerry Rafferty tribute show,the other week still tooting away like billyo

I seem to remember many Coldstream Guards on that front cover I was shown, but my memory could be playing tricks on me...

Thanks Dan, having a handful of these type albums myself the covers all tend to blend together!

Too young I think if he was born in '41. I remember hearing John Lennon saying it was abolished mere months before he would have been eligible and he was born in October '40.

According to Wikipedia, UK National Service for those of between 17 & 21 years finished in 1963, with the last entrants joining in Nov 1960. Therefore, both Lennon & Bruce would have been liable.

And the late great Howard Evans (Albions/Home Service/Brass Monkey) was a Welsh Guardsman...

as John Tams never tires of saying

Another Bruce Rowland question...

I heard a suggestion via Jonny Trunk (on 6musics's FreakZone) that Bruce is possibly the mystery (and much sampled) drummer on Serge Gainsbourg's incredible Melody Nelson lp. Unlikely to be confirmed, but listening again it does sound like him (thinking of his playing on Poor Ditching Boy or maybe John Martyn's Dancing)...

Ah...wishful thinking, the drummer on Histoire de Melody Nelson was John Barry Seven man Dougie Wright

For definite? Knew that was too good to be true...

Strange...the most recent reissue seems to claims the drummer still to be unknown (even though the wiki entry backs up your suggestion). Likewise, any suggestion that the bassist was Herbie Flowers seem to have since been proved wrong. Problem being, I s'pose, that a huge number of (largely instrumental) sessions took place in a small period of time, involving a large coterie of musicians, not knowing who or what they were playing for...So I'm yet to rule it out completely. And regardless, that album is so great.... :)

My Dad was born in November 1939 and didn't do National Service. I thought the cut-off may have been the start of WW2.