Fairport/Cropredy BBC4??

[Barry]

And did Frank really say John Lee was "sentenced to life by hanging"?!!

Yep, he did.  

And it wasn't the first ever full performance of "Babbacombe Lee".  It wasn't even the first full performance at Cropredy.

[GubGub (Al)]

I quite enjoyed the documentary despite the errors. It was inevitably compromised by its length. Even It All Comes Round Again missed out a few things and that was nearly twice as long with 25 years less history to cover. The definitive version is still to be made at a minimum of three hours I would guess but I suspect the audience for it would not justify the cost. And that is also why the BBC would never cover Cropredy. It is too parochial and reaches the wrong demographic. Audience figures would just not justify the investment.

Haven't watched the concert yet.

[Poor Will (Bill)]

I thought it was a very good attempt to present a detailed story with virtually no source material. Probably the closest they can get to a silk purse given a sows ear.

Though I was puzzled why the Bouton Rouge footage was black and white, when the RT film had the same footage in colour.

And did Frank really say John Lee was "sentenced to life by hanging"?!!

Cheers

Nick

perhaps this was a quip on the fact that he didn't die rather than a mistake

[Henry Tompkins (Pete)]

 I thought the recent concert was OK,......  I thought the band all played well , but that it was somehow a little flat.  Once again I thought that they're badly in need of a strong and vibrant lead singer.  But some of the playing was absolutely first rate and spine tingling.  

I have to agree with Jules here.  Most of the instrumental work was indeed breathtaking.   However, some of the vocals, and in particular the harmonies, were all over the place.  It won't happen anytime soon, but they do need a different singer from somewhere I believe.

This is my personal opinion.    I'd better get that in, before everyone piles in with hate mail!  

[Nick]

Thought the concert was ok but it confirmed a suspicion about the Union Chapel... I've been to lots of gigs in there and enjoyed them all, I think it's a superb venue ... But ... I've never seen a film from there that's come out as anything other than 'a bit flat'. Probably not helped because audiences are often quiet and reverential - in awe of the building sometimes. It seems that the cameras never quite capture the resulting atmosphere.

Cheers

Nick

[mickf]

Sat through the 4 programmes (two 'live' and two recorded from last night) including the Folk at the BBC documentary with the lovely old footage of earnest types with pipes singing away.  I hadn't seen the RT documentary before, so that was interesting - particularly the honest contributions from Richard and Linda. The Fairport doc was also good in its way, but perhaps needed to be twice as long to do justice to the middle period Fairport and the post 1985 line up with Martin Alcock and DM.  However, as Dan O said, you don't often get a whole evening's Fairport related programming, so I'm thankful for that.

I enjoyed Frank's occasional glitch ('sentenced to life by hanging') he came over as a fan of the band, which can't be a bad thing  

[davidmjs]

And it wasn't the first ever full performance of "Babbacombe Lee".  It wasn't even the first full performance at Cropredy.

Excuse me while I'm really anal here and list my off the top of my head errors in the programme:

1) see Barry's above (I'm surprised nobody in the band put them right about this...it's there on wiki under Fairport's Cropredy Convention Appearances)

2) Peggy joined in '69, not '70 (It's in his wiki entry and on the FC official page)

3) StdP was not their only TotP appearance (I'll admit I only discovered this the other week when reading about Angel Delight).

4) Frank stated as fact something like 'for the first 5 years after they split up in '79, Cropredy was the only time they played together'...It wasn't - they toured every year in the UK, twice in the US as well as some performances in Europe I think. (again, I find it bizarre this wasn't pointed out.  I often hear this repeated as fact - often by the band members themselves.  Strange.)

5) There was some bizarre linear time confusions caused by the Carthy bit where he talked about listening to L&L with Tim Hart when in Steeleye and trying to convince him how good it was, when according to the timeline as presented by the docu, Tyger hadn't even left Fairport at that point!

If I'd been really paying attention (I gave up a little about half way through) there may have been more.  Does it matter?  I suppose not, except to sad old gits like me.  Does accurate history ever matter?  I'd argue it does...

I think the main guilt though is one of omission...the 1971-mid 90's bands were woefully treated.

As for the recent gig shown afterwards...I was surprised how much I enjoyed parts of it...It's taken me well over a quarter of a century but, at times, I really enjoy hearing Ric play.  I'm afraid I still sort of wish it wasn't in Fairport, but that's my problem, not theirs.  

[Jules Gray]

I was surprised how much I enjoyed parts of it...It's taken me well over a quarter of a century but, at times, I really enjoy hearing Ric play.  I'm afraid I still sort of wish it wasn't in Fairport, but that's my problem, not theirs.  

I feel pretty much the same and know exactly what you mean.

Jules

[GubGub (Al)]

I was surprised how much I enjoyed parts of it...It's taken me well over a quarter of a century but, at times, I really enjoy hearing Ric play.  I'm afraid I still sort of wish it wasn't in Fairport, but that's my problem, not theirs.  

I feel pretty much the same and know exactly what you mean.

Jules

Interesting though to get the perspective from the band during the documentary that new members are often brought in specifically not to be the person they have replaced, hence Ric's very different style from Swarb's and Chris replacing Maart. Also interesting if a little disappointing to hear Chris admit that he has consciously steered the band in a more acoustic direction and for Peggy to confirm (again) that this is a style that they are now comfortable with. So I guess we can't expect the return of electric guitars anytime soon.

[davidmjs]

So I guess we can't expect the return of electric guitars anytime soon.

I don't think there's been much chance of that for 15 years really.  Guess we'll have to wait for Fairport to do an 'Albion Band' on us and go all 'Next Generation' before that happens.  I can see that happening somewhere down the line... With any luck someone will wheel me along from the Old Folk's home to see it.  I can wear my my 80's Cropredy t-shirts as a bib....

[Bob Barrows]

5) There was some bizarre linear time confusions caused by the Carthy bit where he talked about listening to L&L with Tim Hart when in Steeleye and trying to convince him how good it was, when according to the timeline as presented by the docu, Tyger hadn't even left Fairport at that point! 

I might be wrong, but I always thought Ashley was doing double duty near the end of the L&L recording sessions, with SS unofficially forming some time before Ashley's official departure from FC. I'm not sure where I got that impression but it does nothing to lend credence to Martin's memory of that event. SS had already been in official existence (having released HtVW) well before Martin was brought into the fold.
Maybe Martin had this conversation with Hart prior to his joining SS; or maybe the conversation took place long after the release of L&L.

[Brendan]

Have to say Ric came across very well, my wife also commented on it, he was very humble, even as a huge swarb fan, I still believe he is an unbelievably good violinist, who brings his own style, and though it is not always my cup of tea, you cannot deny the mans talent. Both times he had the oppportunity he doffed his cap to the superior talents (as he saw them) of Swarb and Chris Leslie.

[davidmjs]

Maybe Martin had this conversation with Hart prior to his joining SS; or maybe the conversation took place long after the release of L&L.

It must have been the latter, but Carthy said something like 'when I was in Steeleye' which added to the confusion.  The main problem was that it was just shown out of sequence as the narration had Ashley leaving after Martin had joined Steeleye which clearly wasn't right...

[greglin (Gregg)]

Enjoyed the documentary very much.

The Union Chapel gig was I thought very low key - Fairport in all their glory at Cropredy are a powerful musical force still - that gave the impression of a bunch on nice laid back geezers doing a few nice ttons. I don't expect leaping about the stage, that's not what I meant - I trust thought it lacked punch and verve - even in the uptempo stuff.

[fat Billy(Bill)]

lords sake gents, it was what it was and none the worse for that. Just nice to see minority music on the TV. Three cheers for auntie beeb!!

[Barry]

Maybe Martin had this conversation with Hart prior to his joining SS; or maybe the conversation took place long after the release of L&L.

It must have been the latter, but Carthy said something like 'when I was in Steeleye' which added to the confusion.  The main problem was that it was just shown out of sequence as the narration had Ashley leaving after Martin had joined Steeleye which clearly wasn't right...

It may have been a conversation they both had in Steeleye, and the comment badly edited into the timeline by the makers. Certainly it stood out like a sore thumb as part of "the establishment criticism of L&L"

[Viv G]

lords sake gents, it was what it was and none the worse for that. Just nice to see minority music on the TV. Three cheers for auntie beeb!!

well said FB

[Amethyst (Jenny)]

lords sake gents, it was what it was and none the worse for that. Just nice to see minority music on the TV. Three cheers for auntie beeb!!

well said FB

I couldn't agree more!!

[Barry]

I'll have to disagree.  Yes it's great to have an evening of minority music on terrestrial TV but we have a right to have it researched properly and delivered accurately.  We get little enough of it, and it's not much to ask.  Anything else is second best.

[delfini (Diane)]

lords sake gents, it was what it was and none the worse for that. Just nice to see minority music on the TV. Three cheers for auntie beeb!!

well said FB

I couldn't agree more!!

Same here. If it brings the music to more people then that's brilliant.

Somehow dad managed to watch at his care home.....and thoroughly enjoyed them