TalkAwhile - The Folk Corporation Forum

Cathy LeSurf (have I written her name correctly?) has been mentioned in another thread..

Yestrday a bloke rang me re the Fairport gig tonight and kept on and on about how lucky he was to have seen FC with Sandy and when Cathy was with the band.  He was implying that Cathy was as much to Fairport as Sandy had been.

It's my understanding the Cathy supported FC for a while, but in no way as much as Chirs While or Vikki Clayton.

It seems to be a common myth in this area that Cathy was a member.

Can anyone add anything to this please?

well i didnt know that it was any sort of myth, common or uncommon.
she was never a member of FC although she has had a fair few stabs at the guest female vocalist at cropredy and may have guested at some gigs

According to Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairport_Convention

She appeared on the Glady's Leap album and guested at some of the Festivals, (I remember her being there at the 25th Anniversary) but she's not listed as a 'former member'

Although Wikipedia isn't completely accurate, it's much better than most people think it is ;D

Cathy was, of course, the fist one to recreaate the Liege and Lief stuff.  Very good it was, too.  Much better than some who have followed her.

There never was any myth that she had joined the band although I do believe that she is the only female singer to record lead vocals in the studio with Fairport since Sandy.

Thanks all.. the common myth I referred to is local to this area (Notts) where on a few occasions I've either seen it written or heard it said.

I don't mean any insult to Cathy.. but it does irk a bit when hyped up...

Cathy was a longtime member of The Albion Band, not FC...maybe where the confusion lies.

Few Cropredy guest spots in the mid-80s and indeed that lead vocal -as guest- on a Gladys' Leap track (the least FC-ish sounding track up to that point, I guess), that's about it. And then years later she did 2(?) songs at Cropredy 1997 with FC. I don't think she ever appeared since?

Another myth is right there in Wikipedia - that Marc Ellington was a proper FC member (in 1970 no less)!

anybody can make corrections to Wikipedia you don't even have to register, but it is preferred if you do

Wasn't Cathy in originally in Fiddlers Dram long long ago?  Somewhat a Pre-cursor to Oysterband.

Yes.

yes, this was the line up way back in 1979,


Cathy Lesurf - vocals, bodhran
Alan Prosser - guitar, fiddle, bowed psaltery, bones
Chris Taylor - bouzouki, harmonica, appalachian dulcimer, mandola, tenor banjo
Ian Telfer - fiddle, bowed psaltery, viola

Will Ward - Bassoon, Crumhorn
Dave Arbus, violinist with East of Eden, was a founder member but left before the band achieved success.
They met at the University of Kent at Canterbury and were residents at Duke’s Folk Club in Whitstable. With other club members including John Jones and Ian Kearey, they formed the Oyster Ceilidh Band c.1976, with Cathy Lesurf singing and later assuming the role of caller at dances.

Bassoon-player Will Ward had joined the Oyster Ceilidh Band by 1978, and became the fifth member of Fiddler’s Dram on their eponymous second LP, recorded hurriedly to follow up on their unexpected success in the singles chart. The band were unable to achieve subsequent success however - in the words of Ian Telfer Day Trip To Bangor was “the kind of success you don’t easily recover from. Fiddler’s Dram did one more tour then gratefully took the money (and the gold discs) and ran”.

I only have one Oysterband Album (and like it a lot) and don't really know that much about them, but have always wondered how they got from "Day Trip to Bangor" (which is awful) to that.  

Mind you, I've taken people to see Fairport and played the first album in the car on the way home, usually with the same reaction... :o

Fiddlers Dram 1979.  

Don't you just love the hair ::)



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Day Trip to Bangor.
I remember at the time argueing whether she sang "on the way back, we had a quick shag" - we we younger and punker in those days.

I do remember her singing it with Fairport at Cropredy ..... the song, that is, not that particular line  ;)

Maybe she did sing that,...................

If you have ever been to Bangor, it would kind of make the day worthwhile.

I think she lives at Bridgford, Jen. Perhaps local info has got on the wrong track.

Yes you are right there Malcolm, West Bridgford Nottingham.. where I lived as a student.

Angela.. who is the one with the hair in that photo?

That's Alan Prosser, Amy .....

Thanks Barry

can you imagine.....

...all that hair bobbing about :o ;) ;D

Somewhere I'm afraid I've got a recording of Cathy singing "Day Trip to Bangor" with Fairport at Cropredy. I'm not sure what year but she's introduced by Swarb. (It's a recording from "Folk on 2" from Jim Lloyd's days.) I know where the tape is but perhaps it didn't ought to see the light of day again...

Pretty sure the version of day trip to Bangor is on Cropredy Capers

It is, was listening to it just yesterday.

1984

Oh dear, so it is...

Are you sure?  :o I think Alan is second from the right but I might be wrong.

I'm certain it's Alan.  I've just looked through some of my very old Oysterband LP's.  On the Jack's alive album there's a line drawing of Alan with all the hair, and I hadn't realised that Chris Wood played bass and percussion with them on that album, though I did know that he hung about with them way back then. There is also a photo of him with the hair and glasses on the Lie Back and think of England album.

Fair enough. It didn't occur to me to look at my album sleeves!  ::)

Having said that, much as I love the Oysters, I'm not that fond of anything before Step Outside

Is that Chris Wood next to Cathy in that photo Angela?

No, that's Will Ward.

Anyone one know where she is now?

Or, indeed, since! What were they thinking of?

Oh I dunno, I've always rather liked that track in a funny sort of way... I did try to persuade on band I was in to have a crack at it, but the rest failed to match my enthusiasm...

I think Cathy's great - that was my favourite version of the Albion Band. I also admire her for defying convention and not shaving under her arms! (at least the last time I saw her sing with the Albions)

I'm beginning to feel a bit sad for Cathy, I only shared a stage with her once but she was a really nice person and I'm not sure that whether her underarms were shaved or not has much to do with anything musical :-\

I remember seeing cathy sing with Fairport at the Half Moon one New Year's Eve (early eighties? pre-Gladys's leap). But it was definitely a guest spot and not as a member.

On a day by Day basis...I have no idea what Cathy LeSurf gets up to but occasionally I see her name connected to various music/arts projects here in the East Midlands...several years ago she did a talk (folk stuff) prior to a screening of the film 'A mighty Wind' when it was shown at the Broadway Cinema. and 9 yrs ago I think she had been involved in the National Year of the Artists residency programme...something to do with the Ben Shalom (spelling?) Centre in Nottinghamshire.

I look very fondly at her performances at Cropredy's past...I hope at some point she will be invited to be part of a Fairport or an Albion band session...There has been some good material written with Cathy providing vocals...I think some material off 'Light Shining' (Albion band) has some plum songs on it noteably the title track 'Light Shining' for one. (Hope this gets reissued at some point)

Me to, my vinyl copy is unplayable. Unfortunately I believe there are ownership problems with that album and a couple of others of that era.

I really rate Cathy as a singer and as a female guest with FC (she was my first so, as in so many ways, my favourite).  She's also a lovely person (or was on the 2 or 3 times I met her).

Isn't it amazing that oysterband (aka The Oyster Band and/or Fiddlers Dram) seem to have rewritten history to completely disown much of their early work.  Weird.

I am a great fan of cathy's vocals on the Albion Band album Under The Rose - some really great folk rock (with the emphasis on rock) on that particular one.

DW

I'm not sure that is true. For their 25th Anniversary they reissued the vast majority of their first four albums on CD compilations (still available from Running Man I think) and JJ regularly talks about those days on stage but there was a stylistic shift after CL and others left the band and they adopted a rock rhythm section for Step Outside and that is the basic blueprint they have stuck with ever since.

I'll admit to not paying that much attention recently, but I distinctly remember press releases at the time that talked about Freedom and Rain as their 4th album or whatever....

Or alternatively "on the way back I struggled with Jack to open a bottle of cider".  Well some bottles were hard to open in those days!   ;D

Jules

I was watching the Oysterband in the sunshine just two days ago.  They put on a great show.  I'd never seen them before.

Jules

Well, I guess it was, sort of. Oyster Band/Oysterband were a very different proposition/line up to the Oyster Ceilidh Band, which is what they were before. Step Outside represented a completely different approach and was, I guess, something of a year zero but I don't think they have ever denied what went before.



 :o :o :o How have you possibly never seen them until now? Really one of the best live bands out there. Actually one of the best bands, full stop!

Another TAWer at Wychwood then.....I've a few photos somewhere....

I guess I'm a rocker with folk leanings rather than a folkie with rock leanings, so I just didn't cross paths with 'em.

Jules

Maybe you got one of the back of me head, Chris!   :D

Jules

Me too. But the first thing I ever heard by them was Hal An Tow which rocks like a b*st*rd and their cover of New Order's Love Vigilantes. It was love at first sight!  ;D

Aye, they played that on Saturday.  It was mighty!

Jules

I guess I'd say that anyone who has the strength of mind to ignore such a universal yet completely pointless convention is someone whose strength of mind might well mean that they have interesting things to say and attitudes to convention in other arenas of life and their music might very well be one of them...

Apropos to which the topic inspired me to dig out an old compilation tape which has got "The Green Mist" (which Cathy wrote as well as sang) off "Light Shining" on. Grief, that is such a wonderful piece. For me it really is one of the jewels of the Folk Rock movement, right up there with the best of Sandy and Richard's songs... Lovely arrangement too, especially Jean-Pierre Rasle's pipes...

There is definitely a strong contingent here who dislike any female vocalist who isn't Sandy Denny. Sad, really, since they cheat themselves out of a lot of fine music. All credit due to Sandy and her memory...but there are many, many awesome vocalists out there of both sexes.

Sermon over. As far as Cathy LeSurf, I like her voice very, very much and wish her stay with the band had been much longer.  I couldn't care less about her armpits. Or anyone else's, for that matter.   ::)

I didn't know that "Light Shining" was in any kind of limbo - I have a CD buried in a cupboard somewhere.... must play it tomorrow.

well said !

Most of the Albions stuff from the 80s (nearly all of which features Cathy) seems to be pretty much unavailable. Not sure why Talking Elephant have not picked it up as they have the one album from this period that she does not appear on (Shuffle Off). Ashley's studio version of By Gloucester Docks and the All Stars' As You Like It from the same era seem to have had the same fate.



I'd like to exclude myself from that contingent if I may. I enjoy many female vocalists both within the broad "folk" genre and beyond but sadly Cathy is not amongst them. There is something about her voice or perhaps her phrasing that puts me off. I'm not even sure what it is but it is, no doubt, my loss.

I disagree.  I like a hairy armpit (or two) on a woman, and I'm completely in favour of being told who is and who isn't sporting such a look.

 ;D

Jules

My first introduction to the Albion Band was in the Cathy LeSurf era - Under The Rose was the first Albion Band album I bought, and I'm another who would like to see it re-released on CD, as I only have an LP in a cupboard somewhere.

I have mixed feelings about her voice - there are certain tracks which I love, and others that I'm not so keen on.

I've heard nothing but praise for Light Shining. Where does it fit, style-wise, in the Albion Band cannon? Is it folk-rock in the Rise Up Like The Sun vein, or more 80's sounding like Under The Rose? I do have a soft spot for Under The Rose, although it's around 15 years since I listened to it (on vinyl, borrowed from my local library).

Is Light Shining's non-appearance on CD anything to do with Celtic Music? ie, the same fate as some Nic Jones' albums, and Bright Phoebus?

It would seem that Cathy is still performing on the odd occasion - here she is at Grantham Folk Festival in June 2008....http://www.flickr.com/photos/unclechristo/2602004855/

I really liked Light Shining.  Must dig out my old vinyl copy and give it a listen... haven't heard it for years.

I can confirm that Cathy guested on lead vocals with Fairport on at least one occasion other than Croppers. This was New Years Eve, 31/12/83 I think, at the Half Moon in Putney - Simon/Swarb/Peggy/Bruce lineup.
 
I  remember it vividly because (a) my better half became stuck when she ill advisedly sat on a beer stained table after several voddies, and (b) I spilt me beer over Cathy's tights! She was very gracious about it and I only had to buy her a double gin to make all tickety-boo again.

That was in the days before we had kids - four of us belted down the M1 from Leicester, post-gig we crashed out at a flat in Wembley. The snores could be heard for miles.

Oh yeah - Miss Le Surf lives on Bread'n'Lard Island now does she? Very high class me duck!      

I've just remembered my favourite Albion Band gig, as well.  Weird set up at the (fairly new at the time) Bohunt School in Liphook (c. '83 ish) featured Ashley, Mattacks, Simon, CleS and a couple of others who's identities are lost in my memory banks.  That band really (folk-)rocked.

Oooh...if I had just half her vocal talent... :'(

 ;D

   Fairport Convention
Pre-Cropredy warm-up
Half Moon, Putney
5th August 1986


01 Walk Awhile
02 The Gas Almost Works/Cat On The Mixer/Three Left Feet
03 Honour And Praise
04 Portmeirion
05 Bird From The Mountain
06 The Hiring Fair
07 Brilliancy Medley/Cherokee Shuffle
08 Shadows Of The Moon
09 Once More Chance
10 Plains Of Innocence
11 Broken
12 Quiet Joys Of Brotherhood
13 Missed Emotions
14 Reno Nevada
15 Man In A Station
16 Keep On Sailing
17 Tried So Hard
18 Suzanne
19 Close To The Wind
20 Swirling Pit/Matty Groves/Rutland Reel/Sack The Juggler
21 Meet On The Ledge



Simon Nicol
Dave Pegg
Maartin Allcock
Dave Mattacks
Ric Sanders

with

Cathy LeSurf
Iain Matthews
Jerry Donahue

If DM & Simon were involved the others would likely have been Jean Pierre Rasle on pipes & Dave Whetstone on squeezy things. Indeed, a splendid line-up.

I think I must have been there too.  I remember going to one warm-up at the Half Moon (years before I ever went to Cropredy) when Ian Matthews was there, but I couldn't remember the year.  Wish I could remember more of the evening at this distance.  The setlist looks great!

In 1983, The Albion band line up of Le Surf, Nicol, Mattacks, Hutchings, Whetstone & Rasle also performed at Cropredy...If remember right.

Thanks for both clearing the lineup query up....did this lot record anything?

Light Shining & Shuffle Off.

As far as I know LS has never appeared on Cd, part of the Celtic Music /Dave Bulmer imbroglio, I believe. But rumour has it that Shuffle Off has been issued, untitled, on a rather eccentric Talking Elephant release, paired with part of a 1976(?)  Royal Festival Hall soundboard recording. A curious item (the release, not the music) I've not bothered buying as it contained nothing "new".

SO is a rather a nice Dance Band outing, mostly very nice but it a little suffers from '80s production, dodgy synths & things, but does contain an odd little DM keyboard extravaganza. Hmm, must find that vinyl copy.

Oops. Forgot to mention, Shuffle Off release is called "Dancing Days Are Here Again".

I picked it up recently. Pretty enjoyable for the most part though CleS does not appear on Shuffle Off of course as it is entirely instrumental.

I guess this youtube clip must be that lineup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGOCQDcscvU

I used to love the Albion Band with Cathy in the eighties, and I have a vcr tape I recorded from TV with her at Cropredy singing Rising for the moon.
I liked a little less the record Surface with her with Pegg, Mattacks Donahue and others.
Great voice, anyway.

smiling,
enzo